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Soybean oil or Stearic Acid?

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gsc

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I want to harden a recipe without affecting to much of the recipe I created. I know both Stearic Acid and Soybean Oil (full hydro) will do it. I don't know which one would be more appealing on the label. Any advice?
 

kchaystack

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Soybean oil is known to increase the chance your soap will go rancid and develop dreaded orange spots.

Stearic pretty much instantly saponifies, so will make your recipe thicken really fast, so if you are doing swirls or other designs, it makes it more difficult. That is why most recipes with SA are hot process.

Both are going to change the properties of your recipe.

You can try beeswax at 3% or so. But to use it you have to soap hot to keep it melted.
 

galaxyMLP

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Hydrogenated soybean oil should not give higher chances of DOS as it no longer contains linoleic acid. The fatty acids become stearic acid in true hydrogenated soybean oil. I'm sure that there are some residual linoleic and trans fatty acids but it would be negligible.

I'm not sure if soy wax is still as a triglyceride at that point after hydrogenation or if it becomes separated into its fatty acids so, I'm not sure if it would make if difference in using either one.

Like Kchaystack says though, both will change your recipes feel quite a bit so your likely just going to have to experiment with each and see which you like best. And both will require higher initial working temperatures.

Eta: as for label appeal, you have problems with both. Many people don't like seeing soybean oil in products. I've had a customer at my booth get mad at me for having 100% soy wax tarts for wax melts because she thought it was a waste of a viable food source. At the same time, many people won't know what stearic acid is (a lot will view it as "oh, thats a chemical..."). Then there's the source of stearic acid that can be a problem. It's either tallow or Palm derived and people seem to have issues with both of those. You can't please them all unfortunately...
 
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topofmurrayhill

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Hydrogenated soybean oil should not give higher chances of DOS as it no longer contains linoleic acid. The fatty acids become stearic acid in true hydrogenated soybean oil. I'm sure that there are some residual linoleic and trans fatty acids but it would be negligible.
What you are describing is fully hydrogenated soybean oil, which is pretty uncommon and has a melt point around 150. That would still be a triglyceride -- almost all tristearin and no trans-fats.

Most (partially) hydrogenated soy is flaked vegetable shortening. Some of those shortenings are also used to make candles. It's almost impossible to get a reliable fatty acid profile for those. Most likely the linoleic is greatly reduced or eliminated as you suggest (at the cost of creating trans-oleic acid) and some amount of oleic is converted to stearic.

I want to harden a recipe without affecting to much of the recipe I created. I know both Stearic Acid and Soybean Oil (full hydro) will do it. I don't know which one would be more appealing on the label. Any advice?
To make it harder, you are changing the recipe regardless of how you do it. Generally the best way is to revise the recipe to use harder oils (more saturated fatty acids). Greater amounts of stearic and palmitic acid in particular harden the soap. In CP it's easier to add those as part of oils instead of free fatty acids like stearic flakes that will accelerate or seize your batch. If you want to increase stearic and you have fully hydrogenated soybean oil, that is probably the ideal way. You can't use too much or it will want to congeal in a ring around the edges of your oils.
 
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The Efficacious Gentleman

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As it's just for you and yours, forget label appeal and go for the best option for you.

I would imagine you could use less SA than HSBO to get a harder bar. That said, what is the recipe? Maybe there is something you've overlooked and while SA or HSBO could be used, you might well have other options open to you.
 

galaxyMLP

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What you are describing is fully hydrogenated soybean oil, which is pretty uncommon and has a melt point around 150. That would still be a triglyceride -- almost all tristearin and no trans-fats.

Most (partially) hydrogenated soy is flaked vegetable shortening. Some of those shortenings are also used to make candles. It's almost impossible to get a reliable fatty acid profile for those. Most likely the linoleic is greatly reduced or eliminated as you suggest (at the cost of creating trans-oleic acid) and some amount of oleic is converted to stearic.
Yes, thats true but gsc specifically states "fully hydro" so I was thinking of that case.
 

allane

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If you can get your hands on allanblackia oil, 15 ml in an eight kilos of oils give a very hard and moisturizing soap.
 

CTAnton

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Allane I did a search on google on allanblackia oil...very interesting...curious as to where you source it from?
 

allane

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Allane I did a search on google on allanblackia oil...very interesting...curious as to where you source it from?
CT, I mill my own oil because I have access to the seeds. Send a pm and I will see if I can send you a sample.
 

topofmurrayhill

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If you can get your hands on allanblackia oil, 15 ml in an eight kilos of oils give a very hard and moisturizing soap.
Is there a typographical error? Even if this was 15 grams in 8000 grams of oils (and it is less than that), it is considerably less than 0.2%, and would have no noticeable effect. The oil is equivalent to a tropical butter with higher than typical stearic acid, but cocoa butter is easily obtainable and does the job.
 

allane

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This is no typographical error. I have used this fat for over five years in bar soap, liquid soap and transparent soap. This is one instance where more is not better. You cannot make a single oil soap out of it.

Allane
 

allane

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Yes, salt will harden soap but AB oil has other advantages. It gives a smooth texture to the soap makes it look like pressed soap and also acts as a co-emulsifier in lotions and creams. That is why it is used in spreads and margarine.

I don't know why there is the notion out there that it is hard to source. It is easily available where I am.

Allane
 

Rune

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I found margarine with allanblackia, and then had to google to find out what on Earth this stuff is, since I have never heard of it before. But yes, impossible to find pure allanblackia oil. Or, I found it at this UK vendor only, but it was very expensive. And I don't think it is an expensive oil since they can afford using it in those crappy margarines. But it can be the freight from Africa that costs the most.

But since it is mostly oleic and stearic acid in allanblackia, I think mixing olive oil with stearic acid or palm stearin will do around the same, maybe. At least it will be way cheaper than buying expensive allanblackia oil, depending on whether olive oil is cheap or not in your country. Here, in this high cost country, it is the cheapest I can get, $1.77 for 1 liter. And I found olive oil for as low as $1.35 for 1 liter, but it suddenly disappeared from the grocery store :( Stearic acid or stearin may not change that much from country to country, though.

Totally out of the subject, but why can't vegans use beeswax or honey? I know it's from an insect, but, well, bees are disappearing, and they are very needed for the plants, it will be a disaster without the bees. And since vegans do eat and use everything from plants, and also needs the bees to be there, that does not make too much sense to not use products from those who makes sure there are more bees in the world than it otherwise would, the beecube owners. Beecubes does not pollute or anything.

Here, in Northern Norway, it is a harmless bee-like insect (called "Humle" in norwegian, I don't know the english name) that is rapidly disappearing. In the 80's and 90's it was a lot more of them. All flowers were full of those "bees" (humle looks like a too fat bee). Now, they are quite few. But not completely gone, luckily. But they are not everywhere as they used to. Since I'm not vegan, I guess I don't understand it. But I do understand very well why they don't eat meat and products form farmed animals, and I sort of agrees as well. But products from beecubes, I can't understand that. There are maybe something I don't know about beecubes, that makes them not as positive. I am sure vegans have good arguments. But until I find out something negative, I want to use beeswax to support those who are beekeepers. I do see the catastrophy coming when bees disappear, or partly disappear. I can already see it happening where I live, with my own eyes. Even though we don't have bees in the wild here, but similar insects that does the same job. But I want the wasps to disappear, since I'm afraid of them :D And I desperately pray for the global spider black death to happen. Okey, this was way out of the topic. Sorry
 

Zany_in_CO

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I want to harden a recipe without affecting to much of the recipe I created.
This is just me, but I wouldn't use soy or stearic. You can harden formulas by playing around on SoapCalc, adjusting the % of each oil until the total reaches an INS Value of around 160 -- so-called "perfect soap".

The Iodine Value is also an indicator of hardness. I like to keep it around 50 or less.
HTH :bunny:
 

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