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Fiona Robertson

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I did not buy that wax, but I know I said I would. I just found another supplier and bought from them. I bought this wax:
https://mothernaturesgoodies.co.uk/soy-wax-flakes-for-cosmetics-massage-bars-and-massage-candles/

It seems to be NatureWax C3. I don't find any info stating if any wax is 100% hydrogenated or not. Or well, they say that often in the INCI name, but not the degree of hydrogenation. Such info is always given in my country, at least for food oils. But I guess it is other ways to tell, melting point and such. I was looking for a 100% fully hydrogenated soy wax, but could not find it. I just assumed it would be best with full hydrogenation, but I see now that the recommended Golden Wax 415 is 100% partially hydrogenated soy without additives.

Mostly everything I found in the UK, but I was not going thru all shops, said their wax was a blend. But blend of what? That was impossible to find out. I tried to find something that was not a blend, but gave up. I could not find it. New Directions did not tell what their soy wax really was other than hydrogenated soybean oil, so it might not have been a blend, or it is blended like most other waxes.

And I encountered another problem, the INCI names change just randomly after what supplier you visit. The same wax can have two-three different INCI names, which makes it really difficult to find out what it really is or not. I suspect they just make up an appropriate name as they like. For example can they write one place hydrogenated soybean oil, and the next place hydrogenated vegetable glycerides, or something like that. Very confusing.
Would this one work Rune?: https://www.aromantic.co.uk/home/products/butters-waxes/soya-wax.aspx
 

earlene

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Richard, for me soy wax is an alternative to animal fats, primarily. It is easily obtained here in the US, is not prohibitively expensive and can be used in fairly high percentages making it a better choice than some of the vegetable butters such as shea or cocoa butter.

Another benefit that I see is that my soap with soy wax does not seem to form ash, which is nice because the surface colors remain true rather than to be muted by ash that I have to remove (if so inclined). And I like the sort of shiny finish it produces.

Well, although I have not gotten ash on my soy wax soaps, it is not tried and true, since Dawni's experience with her soy wax soap vs lard soap experiment does get ash. Just thought I'd mention that as a follow up on that part of the discussion. There are other factors at play, other than the soy wax itself.
 

KiwiMoose

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I get ash on mine if i don't gel them. And I get even more ash when I use salt water. I have stopped using alcohol spray on the tops because I found that it discoloured them bit to look like ash, and I've been having better looking soaps since.
 

penelopejane

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I get ash on mine if i don't gel them. And I get even more ash when I use salt water. I have stopped using alcohol spray on the tops because I found that it discoloured them bit to look like ash, and I've been having better looking soaps since.
A few of us have found that when using alcohol spray it’s best (stops discolouration) to spray really, really lightly when the soap is set up a little bit. Not liquidy and past the point of being able to do the tops. I insulate my soaps and come back to spray them maybe 1/2 an hour later. I don’t respray. With this method it still stops ash:

I did not buy that wax, but I know I said I would. I just found another supplier and bought from them. I bought this wax:
https://mothernaturesgoodies.co.uk/soy-wax-flakes-for-cosmetics-massage-bars-and-massage-candles/

It seems to be NatureWax C3. I don't find any info stating if any wax is 100% hydrogenated or not. Or well, they say that often in the INCI name, but not the degree of hydrogenation. Such info is always given in my country, at least for food oils. But I guess it is other ways to tell, melting point and such. I was looking for a 100% fully hydrogenated soy wax, but could not find it. I just assumed it would be best with full hydrogenation, but I see now that the recommended Golden Wax 415 is 100% partially hydrogenated soy without additives.

Mostly everything I found in the UK, but I was not going thru all shops, said their wax was a blend. But blend of what? That was impossible to find out. I tried to find something that was not a blend, but gave up. I could not find it. New Directions did not tell what their soy wax really was other than hydrogenated soybean oil, so it might not have been a blend, or it is blended like most other waxes.

And I encountered another problem, the INCI names change just randomly after what supplier you visit. The same wax can have two-three different INCI names, which makes it really difficult to find out what it really is or not. I suspect they just make up an appropriate name as they like. For example can they write one place hydrogenated soybean oil, and the next place hydrogenated vegetable glycerides, or something like that. Very confusing.
Not sure but I think a blend might be hydrogenated oils AND refined oils. Sometimes it might refer to additives.

They are really tricky with their wording but if it’s 100% hydrogenated they state that clearly. If not they waffle all around it.

I’m think the wax you got will be fine. It sounds similar to the one kiwimoose has had good results with. Test and see if you like it in soap. If you do and you are ever able to find 100% fully hydrogenated soy you know it will just produce a soap that is a little harder.
 
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Rune

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Thank you :) But, it is very, very expensive. With shipping, 1 kilo would cost me 25,07 GBP.

I paid 26 GBP for 1 litre of castor oil, 1 kilo of rapeseed wax and 2 kilo of soy wax from Mother Nature Goodies, included shipping. A bargain :)

But NatureWax C3 is from USA and it is made from GMO soy (but they say it is tested not to contain any GMO or how it was. I did not understand it).

I sort of expected GMO when I saw it was from the USA. But that is perhaps better than soy from Brazil, where they have cut down rainforest to grow it, or from China where you don't know what you get or how they have grown it, if it is soy. They still use illegal pestisides in China and 80% or so of their land is polluted (I can't remember exactly), plus they have a history of adulterating to the extremes. I read that 50% of the population in cities in China had lead poisoning in various degrees, because they add lead to tea to make it heavier. Quite extreme! God knows what they can do to their soy. So, things can be worse than some GMO soy wax, probably cultivated under satisfactory conditions. And GMO is controversial, not only bad things.
 
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Andrew

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i have previous comments and a letter from golden wax going into GMO and DNA.

I drink a lot of tea... will have to look into that...
 

earlene

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I read that 50% of the population in cities in China had lead poisoning in various degrees, because they add lead to tea to make it heavier. Quite extreme! .
Re: the tea, the older tea leaves tend to accumulate lead (from the soil), whereas younger leaves have far less lead. https://www.care2.com/greenliving/lead-contamination-of-tea-which-types-to-avoid.html


Just thought I'd point that out as one reason the tea may have more lead.


Back to topic:

I have been using my soap with 30% soy wax and find that not only does it produce a hard bar of soap, it also works fairly well for shaving my legs when I did not bring my shaving soap with me on our recent 5-day roadtrip. No nicks or cuts, which is the main reason I usually avoid using plain bath soap for shaving. So that was a plus for the soy wax soap as well.
 

gloopygloop

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Please dont anyone stop the discussion, its very interesting and not scary at all. Am sure no one is arguing with anyone and everyone can agree to disagree, its great to have back up facts and figures so keep em coming folks.
 

Rune

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@earlene But that reason behind lead in tea is not dramatic enough for the news, so I guess that is why they did not mention it.

I'm glad to hear you successfully used soy wax in 30% of the receipe, and that it works for shaving. Not that I will use it for shaving, but I really like the shaving cream like lather. That is my goal, and I think I came quite close in my last soap. But, it is not cured properly yet, and I can't make it again, since the fat blend I used have changed, or I might have used the new one, I have no idea.

What I especially like is when the lather is so stiff that it hardens on the soap when left to dry. My last soap did just that, but I also did add 3% stearic/palmitic 50/50 blend (a candle wax). Not much, but. I think and hope soy wax will make the the same kind of lather because of the high stearic content. And since it works for you as a shaving soap, that is really promising :)

I just hope the soy wax arrives soon. Now I'm trying to find out how to refine red palm oil at home. I seems not too difficult, so far.
 

Fiona Robertson

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Can I reawaken this thread? I would like to ask soy wax users advice on how best to add heat inducing additives such as beer, aloe vera, honey etc?
 

KiwiMoose

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I’ve used beer, cider, champagne, coconut milk, oat milk, aloe and ginger beer with soy wax successfully. What would you like to know?
 

pmartin

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If anyone’s interested, I posted my attempt to approximate the FA profile of Golden Wax 415 in another thread, which is here:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/i-need-help-with-soy-wax-even-after-a-lot-of-reading.76778/
I read through your thread and it’s obvious you’ve done quite a bit of research but I’m still unsure if I’m understanding your findings.

Can you give a quick, clear breakdown of the FA profile of GW415 including stearic content? Thank you!
 

Mobjack Bay

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I read through your thread and it’s obvious you’ve done quite a bit of research but I’m still unsure if I’m understanding your findings.

Can you give a quick, clear breakdown of the FA profile of GW415 including stearic content? Thank you!
There is no verified FA profile. The best estimate is in my last worksheet, but it’s probably a bit high on the stearic and low on palmitic based on the data in the research papers I linked. My FA profile matches the iodine value, sat:unsat and major classes of FA supplied by the manufacturer.

ETA: I uploaded another worksheet (today’s date) that has an FA profile that’s even closer to what I think the reality must be, i.e. 56% oleic acid (including the trans fat elaidic acid) vs. 44% palmitic + stearic. It seems highly likely, for reasons explained in the thread I linked above, that the SAP for Golden Wax 415 is in the same range as the SAP for lard, palm and tallow, and that means higher than what is given for hydrogenated soybean oil in the soap calculators I checked.
 
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Fiona Robertson

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I’ve used beer, cider, champagne, coconut milk, oat milk, aloe and ginger beer with soy wax successfully. What would you like to know?
I would also like to try some of the above water replacements (champagne…Wow!!). What's making me hesitate is that I am concerned about how to gel my soaps if I use a high sugar water replacement. I get along quite well with soy wax as long as I CPOP. Maybe its because I live in a cooler climate but if I don’t CPOP, the soap doesn’t gel evenly and there is mottling where it looks as though the wax has cooled down quicker than the rest of the mixture. I did get advice from DeeAnna not to gel soap using beer in another thread but I would like to hear from any soy wax users who may have experiences to share.
 

KiwiMoose

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Hmmmm - I can't remember if I CPOPped my beer soap - I think I may have. My first one I didn't because it was summer, but I think I did for the second one. I've just done a coconut milk soap today which I CPOPped no problem - but probably not as much sugar in that as there is in beer.
 

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I haven't used soy wax yet but do have a tub of it here to try. Is rice bran oil prone to DOS at all?
Hi there KimT2au! I keep my Rice Bran Oil use to a 30% limit because, when I was a newbie, I read that if Linoleic acid is above 15% we get DOS.
 

senaraj

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Is this a good Soywax to be used for soap making?
 

KiwiMoose

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Is this a good Soywax to be used for soap making?
It appears to be ok - but not a brand I'm familiar with. Try it and see! :)
 
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