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KiwiMoose

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For those that want to use Soy and Soy Wax.
There are Many people that will not use anything with Soy.

There are also many people that see the word WAX and don't want that in soap either.

just an fyi.
I know in New Zealand that soy or soy wax is not an issue for most people. In fact most vegetarians/vegans I know look to soy as their main source of alternative protein. I suspect it is similar in Aussie and perhaps the UK - though not entirely sure. Soy milk is regularly sold as a dairy alternative in both coffee shops and supermarkets. There has been in increase in alternative milks over the past decade, including almond, coconut, oat etc, but soy remains the main alternative.
I do recall when I was in the USA some 10 years ago, it was very hard to find soy milk ( my son who was only a year old at the time is allergic to dairy and nuts) and there was an over-abundance of nut milks which were unsuitable ( he's even MORE allergic to nuts that dairy) - perhaps reflecting the anti-soy movement in the USA.
However, this thread is for people to discuss the use of SW in soap, not whether or not people like it or not.
 
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Rune

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Hi!

I'm not using soy wax, but am about to hit the "buy" button at New Directions UK. But, I have no idea if that soy wax behaves well. As I understand, there are many different types of soy wax out there.

I wonder, have any used this wax in soap?

https://newdirectionsuk.com/products/soya-wax-cosmetic-waxes?variant=7691169005626

I know I make things difficult by wanting to buy a soy wax from a company that have next to nothing information about it. The only reason is because I want to buy some other oils and butters from New Directions UK or Europe (I think the UK site is the European site). But of course, I can find another supplier of soy way.

But what type of soy wax should I buy? What kind do you in this thread use?
 

Dawni

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Hi!

I'm not using soy wax, but am about to hit the "buy" button at New Directions UK. But, I have no idea if that soy wax behaves well. As I understand, there are many different types of soy wax out there.

I wonder, have any used this wax in soap?

https://newdirectionsuk.com/products/soya-wax-cosmetic-waxes?variant=7691169005626

I know I make things difficult by wanting to buy a soy wax from a company that have next to nothing information about it. The only reason is because I want to buy some other oils and butters from New Directions UK or Europe (I think the UK site is the European site). But of course, I can find another supplier of soy way.

But what type of soy wax should I buy? What kind do you in this thread use?
It's worth reading back Rune... There's info to help you figure out what wax you're looking at if it isn't labeled clearly online.

Most have uses 415 which is labeled as 100% pure soy wax. A couple of us have tried the 444, which is labeled as 98% soy wax and 2% soy based additive. It seems to work, if you can't find pure, like me.

I soaped with it yesterday, will be posting results soon as I take proper pics.
 

Rune

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Thank you @Dawni :)

Now I understand way better. I just got confused when I saw all sorts of soy wax, container blends, pillar blend, C3, C5 and what not.

The soy wax from New Directions says "100% pure and natural" on the packet. That must mean no additives.
Also, in one of the documents, it says "INCI name: Hydrogenated vegetable oil". That must mean 100% hydrogenated.

So, it seems that the soy wax they have is just right. They don't have any other, just one type. It is not expensive, so I will go ahead and buy it. And I have to pay shipping from them anyway.

Thank you again :)
 

lsg

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It is clear to me at this point that you just want to argue. I, however, have done my homework and have used all of these waxes in test batches. The most important factor for using soy wax (or any oil) is the SAP value which does not change in the hydrogenation process. Although I am assuming your comments really are about linoleic%, I am unsure.

Please read my previous comments about approximation and interestification as that was my entire point about the differences in hardness properties in waxes. This is apparently something you skipped over.

% hydrogenation and fatty acid make up are proprietary information and AAK will not be willing tell you. They may break it down by saturated/monosaturated/etc makeup, but they will not give you more information than I already have.

I would also advise against using shortening for the food industry since it commonly has citric acid which messes with lye discount %. Although Jedwards International knows how much may be in their butters, you will have difficulty getting that information from a food supplier.
I have used Crisco and GV shortening many times in soapmaking with no problems.
 
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Andrew

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I have used Crisco and GV shortening many times in soapmaking with not problems.
The interesting thing about crisco is the removal of trans fats. While it makes a solid soap soap ingredient (I have used it personally as well), it has been reformulated to not include any hydrogenated soy and is does not really have a similar fatty acid makeup. It does not include any trans fats, which is definitely good, but has palm as a substantial % of the ingredients. Just something for people to keep in mind if you are trying to avoid palm.
 

Rune

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I have just now ordered 2 kilos of soy wax and 1 kilo of rapeseed wax (have to test that too, but what is its sap. value?) and some castor, just because. When everything arrives, it will be soy wax soap! Jippi! And if it thickens like crazy before I can get it in the mold, I will immediately book a flight to New Zealand, sneak outside a certain house and see if I can catch KiwiMoose in cheating to get such fluid batters o_O
 

KiwiMoose

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I have just now ordered 2 kilos of soy wax and 1 kilo of rapeseed wax (have to test that too, but what is its sap. value?) and some castor, just because. When everything arrives, it will be soy wax soap! Jippi! And if it thickens like crazy before I can get it in the mold, I will immediately book a flight to New Zealand, sneak outside a certain house and see if I can catch KiwiMoose in cheating to get such fluid batters o_O
Ha ha Rune. My nephew lives in Norway - he has won awards for brewing very good ginger beer!
 

penelopejane

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Rune

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Ha ha Rune. My nephew lives in Norway - he has won awards for brewing very good ginger beer!
Guess what, I found him! I am quite good at research, I must say, but had to really work hard to be able to find him with just a little piece of information. He is very cute, if it is him in the middle, just like his aunt! :)

https://www.vest24.no/trioen-flytter-til-fedje-for-a-leve-av-ol-og-whisky/s/5-82-12418

He is in the west and I'm in the north. Right outside the town of Narvik (10 minutes drive) in the northernmost part of Nordland county. Probably just as close to the north pole as you are to the south pole.

I have seen on TV that parts of New Zealand looks just like Norway. I will find out where.... South-Island. But I see now it does look way more tropical than here. But otherwise very similar. So maybe you are not so close to the south pole as I though.

Thank you for the comment on the other thread about NatureWax C3. I was really glad to hear from a soy wax expert that it looked fine :) Otherwise I would have to learn how to make candles to be able to use it up. When the wax arrives, I actually have supplies enough to start making soap again, with a new recipe. It can't behave worse than the old recipe anyway, so it will be a step forward.
 

Rune

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He is cute too. I was 200% sure I had found the right one, since we have almost nobody from New Zealand here, and when the one I found was making beer, then I couldn't possibly be anybody else. No wonder we have few Newzealenders here, since it is the furthest away you possibly can get. I guess he have to win the lottery to travel home for christmas. I will have to look out for his beer and taste some, if I can find it. But perhaps it is only sold locally. That is often the case when it comes to smaller breweries.

If you come to visit him, you should know that this country is not so ugly as where he live. Or well, the towns are ugly many (most) places, but the landscape is most often breathtaking. But definately not in the south-east where he is situated, where it is just depressing and dull. You have to travel north or west.
 

penelopejane

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The green one I made in the tube - yes I think it has. I always thought they were little clumps of rice flour, since I put some of that in it.
Thank you @Dawni :)

Now I understand way better. I just got confused when I saw all sorts of soy wax, container blends, pillar blend, C3, C5 and what not.

The soy wax from New Directions says "100% pure and natural" on the packet. That must mean no additives.
Also, in one of the documents, it says "INCI name: Hydrogenated vegetable oil". That must mean 100% hydrogenated.

So, it seems that the soy wax they have is just right. They don't have any other, just one type. It is not expensive, so I will go ahead and buy it. And I have to pay shipping from them anyway.

Thank you again :)
It is 100% soy wax but it’s not 100% hydrogenated.
They will definitely state in the info if it is 100% hydrogenated.
 

penelopejane

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I know in New Zealand that soy or soy wax is not an issue for most people. In fact most vegetarians/vegans I know look to soy as their main source of alternative protein. I suspect it is similar in Aussie and perhaps the UK - though not entirely sure. Soy milk is regularly sold as a dairy alternative in both coffee shops and supermarkets. There has been in increase in alternative milks over the past decade, including almond, coconut, oat etc, but soy remains the main alternative.
I do recall when I was in the USA some 10 years ago, it was very hard to find soy milk ( my son who was only a year old at the time is allergic to dairy and nuts) and there was an over-abundance of nut milks which were unsuitable ( he's even MORE allergic to nuts that dairy) - perhaps reflecting the anti-soy movement in the USA.
However, this thread is for people to discuss the use of SW in soap, not whether or not people like it or not.
There is a movement against soy in Australia because of the effects of eating soy and because it is often GM.

Do some research before you use seaweed and soy in a soap as the subsequent iodine content could be problematic for some people.
 

Andrew

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100% hydrogenated soy has a melting temperature of about 145˚. Anything lower than that, including all candle wax, will be partially hydrogenated.

the letter from Golden Brands I posted above goes into quite a bit of detail about their testing, DNA content, and refining results. Basically, what they are selling is refined fat with everything they are testing for at below detectable value. I would also assume this includes iodine.
 

penelopejane

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100% hydrogenated soy has a melting temperature of about 145˚. Anything lower than that, including all candle wax, will be partially hydrogenated.

the letter from Golden Brands I posted above goes into quite a bit of detail about their testing, DNA content, and refining results. Basically, what they are selling is refined fat with everything they are testing for at below detectable value. I would also assume this includes iodine.
The spec sheet for the soy wax Rune bought has iodine listed at 50-56 CG/G.

http://www.madarcorporation.co.uk/spec-sheets/cosmetic-waxes/Soya Wax - Spec.pdf
 

Andrew

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The spec sheet for the soy wax Rune bought has iodine listed at 50-56 CG/G.

http://www.madarcorporation.co.uk/spec-sheets/cosmetic-waxes/Soya Wax - Spec.pdf
the iodine value, or iodine index in chemistry is the mass of iodine in grams that is consumed or absorbed by 100g of a chemical substance. How it is relevant for soap makers is it helps determine the amount of unsaturation in fatty acids. It has nothing to do with how much iodine is in the product. it is even in all soap calculators as a reference number.
 

Rune

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The spec sheet for the soy wax Rune bought has iodine listed at 50-56 CG/G.

http://www.madarcorporation.co.uk/spec-sheets/cosmetic-waxes/Soya Wax - Spec.pdf
I did not buy that wax, but I know I said I would. I just found another supplier and bought from them. I bought this wax:
https://mothernaturesgoodies.co.uk/soy-wax-flakes-for-cosmetics-massage-bars-and-massage-candles/

It seems to be NatureWax C3. I don't find any info stating if any wax is 100% hydrogenated or not. Or well, they say that often in the INCI name, but not the degree of hydrogenation. Such info is always given in my country, at least for food oils. But I guess it is other ways to tell, melting point and such. I was looking for a 100% fully hydrogenated soy wax, but could not find it. I just assumed it would be best with full hydrogenation, but I see now that the recommended Golden Wax 415 is 100% partially hydrogenated soy without additives.

Mostly everything I found in the UK, but I was not going thru all shops, said their wax was a blend. But blend of what? That was impossible to find out. I tried to find something that was not a blend, but gave up. I could not find it. New Directions did not tell what their soy wax really was other than hydrogenated soybean oil, so it might not have been a blend, or it is blended like most other waxes.

And I encountered another problem, the INCI names change just randomly after what supplier you visit. The same wax can have two-three different INCI names, which makes it really difficult to find out what it really is or not. I suspect they just make up an appropriate name as they like. For example can they write one place hydrogenated soybean oil, and the next place hydrogenated vegetable glycerides, or something like that. Very confusing.
 
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