Sous Vide HP (SVHP) experimental thread

[SaltedFig]

The yellow has started to fade in the first (high olive/avocado) soaps, thank goodness!

A curious thing that I have noticed is that the pour pattern is visible on the cut face of the curing soap now, in a similar manner to a high-low water CP soap. These bars did have slightly different water amounts in each portion, so this process must continue past gelling (the soap was zap free when it was poured).

I will try and take some photo's of it in the natural light (it's dark here at the moment), for you to see.
(I quite like the effect!)

I've also got another test batch to make this week, so I'll load up all of the photo's at once.

In another thread, I read that fluid HP soaps warp as they cure ... I am guessing this would be because they have extra liquids to make them fluid?
Does anyone know roughly how long warping takes to appear in those fluid-pour HP soaps?

I anticipate these SVHP soaps will not warp (there was no extra water or additives in the recipe to make it fluid), but time will tell (another thing to add to my checklist, thank-you! ).

 

[earlene]

I don't recall how long before I notice warping, but it's happened to me with high water CP bars as well. The warping wasn't horrendous, but plainly visible. I think it's worse with thinner cuts. One inch thick rectangular bars warped. How much thicker would one need to go to prevent warping? I don't know, but I think it would be less of a problem in chunkier sized soaps.

 

[SoapAddict415]

Can you use Ziploc style sandwich bags? Or would those be too thin? I'd like to try this weekend.

 

[DeeAnna]

Something I've noticed - the bags don't swell much at all, so I'm starting to trust that they won't burst on me. I have to do an "over-cooking" test.

I was wondering about that too, but so far I'm not seeing any gas buildup either or it's so minor it's not an issue. I would not entirely discount this possibility, because I do know some ingredients sometimes used in soap can evolve gas as they chemically react (baking soda would be an example), but I'm thinking this is going to be more the exception than the rule.

 

[SaltedFig]

I don't recall how long before I notice warping, but it's happened to me with high water CP bars as well. The warping wasn't horrendous, but plainly visible. I think it's worse with thinner cuts. One inch thick rectangular bars warped. How much thicker would one need to go to prevent warping? I don't know, but I think it would be less of a problem in chunkier sized soaps.

Thankyou Earlene

Can you use Ziploc style sandwich bags? Or would those be too thin? I'd like to try this weekend.

Arianna, I have been using a Ziploc sandwich bag, an other than 3 circumstances, they have withstood the soaping process without trouble. The 3 circumstances where the bags failed were:
1/ when I clipped the bags to a metal skewer - the skewer transferred heat and the bag melted at the point of contact with the skewer
2/ I steamed the soap bags too vigorously and they the steam melted one bag (in the corner) out of 4 that were in the bamboo steamer
3/ I turned the bags upside down, and the hot soap batter caused 1 seal, out of the 3 I turned over, to fail
So, if you just gently boil them with the seam out of the water (or in a jug), don't let them touch anything other than the water or steam, and apply gentle heat, they will hold up to the soap batter well

I was wondering about that too, but so far I'm not seeing any gas buildup either or it's so minor it's not an issue. I would not entirely discount this possibility, because I do know some ingredients sometimes used in soap can evolve gas as they chemically react (baking soda would be an example), but I'm thinking this is going to be more the exception than the rule.

I am going to to a test with a plastic container (with a lid that will pop if they get too hot) and see what happens.

This does, however, bring up a valid point - there are circumstances where some ordinary gases are released from, or produced by, the soap (such as gas producing additives or high temperatures), so there should be a caution against using a solid seal for this method.

Caution: Use only containers that will burst open under pressure, such as ziplock bags, with this method.

 

[SoapAddict415]

Thank you Saltedfig!

Sent from my Z828 using Soap Making mobile app

 

[NsMar42111]

Ok, batch 3 is done. Coconut soleseife.

30 minutes from mixed oils to washing my hands with a bar of soap. That's just nuts.

And all I can say is nope. It's ridiculously (impossibly) fast.

I steamed it this time (that part is very easy, but I think it's a bit hotter than a gentle hot water bath - I will be using this idea again, with less steam).

The soap was setting into flakes as I was smooshing it into the mold. I got bars, but they are NOT pretty.

******************

Coconut heats up so much by itself you wouldn't need to boil it, mine fully gells in the molds by itself (2 lb molds). I wouldn't use it for any heated technique....one of the few I don't HP LOL...you're right about the flake idea, laundry soap anyone?

 

[NsMar42111]

Ok, I tried this. Quick warning: If you're using ziploc baggies, the "storage" ones are NOT the same as the "freezer" ones....had a few seam failures and one complete melt through using the storage ones!

My idea was to do a bunch of small 1 lb batches so I can test out all the FOs 1 ozers I have hanging around. I ended up with 7 baggies worth of approx 1 lb each using my usual receipe, apparently I lose more water than I thought because I don't usually end up with that much batter normally. I didn't put them into any container (might be part of my issue), just floated all 7 into hot water in a crockpot. I used the crockpot lid to keep them down, but had no issues with parts not gelling (I did squeeze all the air out before sealing)

I stickblended my normal HP receipe barely to emulsion, although it was pudding by the time I got to the last baggie. I used my 1lb silicone molds to support the baggies while I was dumping the batter in after reading the support caution, worked great. At 35 minutes I swear all the baggies gelled at the same time. I started pulling them out one at a time and fragrancing etc them. I tried letting a couple cool first but I did run into the corners hardenening with that. Within one hour and 10 minutes I had 7 different batches fragranced, colored, and poured. Only one will count for the challenge I guess because the others I just dumped mica/glycerin in...that one I had done a small batch of it colored but should've done more.

Ran into several fragrances that did NOT want to mix in after cook (I'm looking at you Lavender Chamomile) and I ended up dumping them into the mold and then stirring the heck out of them. These were all Candle Science scents, new to me, so I have no idea how they normally behave. I'm thinking adding the fragrance to the emulsified batter is a better idea. My seam failures I kinda suspect the fragrance oil for causing though...

What I will do differently: Use different baggies. Try the FO before cook. Double bag in case the FO eats the seams!

But one thing I have to say is WOW......fluid! It POURED out of the baggies like water! Hardly any leftover soap in the baggie, way better than what I leave behind ont he crockpots or spoons now. You lose NO water with this method!

I used rubber palmed/fingered gardening gloves to handle the baggies, no problems with heat until I accidentally stuck my finger into the water (hothothothot) so don't do that....

This has promise for my FO testings!

 

[DeeAnna]

What was your lye concentration, NsMar? More like an HP recipe or more like CP?

My two batches were at 33% lye concentration or a bit less, and they were nicely fluid too, but not water thin. The texture is hard to describe -- it's kind of like CP soap batter at thick trace, but it's still fluid, not sticky and gooey. There's almost kind of a greasy look to the soap when it plops out of the bag.

 

[NsMar42111]

What was your lye concentration, NsMar? More like an HP recipe or more like CP?

My two batches were at 33% lye concentration or a bit less, and they were nicely fluid too, but not water thin. The texture is hard to describe -- it's kind of like CP soap batter at thick trace, but it's still fluid, not sticky and gooey. There's almost kind of a greasy look to the soap when it plops out of the bag.

I use 30% lye concentration (finally settled on that), I do HP normally. The receipe works fine for CP too on the few occasionas I use if for that .

I guess I should clarify the "like water" part...it was more like greasy liquid vaseline? held it's shape coming out, settled in the mold like a fat wet blobby thing? lol

 

[DeeAnna]

Thanks for sharing the lye concentration you used. That's more like CP than HP -- good to know.

Greasy liquid vaseline -- works for me! Good way of explaining it. I was not coming up with a good explanation.

 

[SaltedFig]

I feel like I've stumbled on the sort of conversation that might be overheard in a group of children with sticks, who are huddled around poking at a jelly fish they've found washed up on shore ... or worse!)

But "Liquid vaseline" ... that actually works as a description of the texture of the poured soap! Thanks!

A couple of quick observations (I did some wash tests today)

The SVHP soap is much "glassier" (?) and grips on the skin less than the CP soap (I poured both, so I could compare them).
The CP soap is softer and bubbles just ever so slightly more (I need to check this - it might just be that there's more soap on my skin from the drag)

The SVHP bars are unbelievably hard, given their age (especially in context - the recipe is roughly 50% oleic)

The SVHP is brighter to look at, and the swirl is highlighted by swirls of translucency that have remained in the soap (I like this very much).
The CP colouring is more matte

On washing with the coconut/soleseife bars, I discovered that the entire effect of the soap setting so quickly is evidenced only in the look of the bars.The internal soap is solid and cohesive, although there are some little pockets of trapped air.

These also dint in only the slightest way, and do not shatter or chip when dropped from the same height (2 foot into the sink).

The SVHP recipe I overheated (post pour), did have some oily residue initially, but this has been absorbed back into the soap.
I find that it is very attractive to look at, is hard (although not as hard as the non-heated soap), lather and washes well, and is zap free.
It has a peculiar slipperiness that I don't like, which I believe was caused by overheating post-pour. This may subside over time.

(I'm going to stop checking zap, it's not impacted by this process).

My next test will be to overcook some (by leaving to cook past the fluid vaseline stage ), and to cook another small batch at too high a temperature.
I am also going to do a third test, and leave that one to cool in the water bath.

Thanks for posting your experiences in detail NsMar

 

[NsMar42111]

We may need to combine the two threads LOL...I think they're both running along the same lines...

 

[SaltedFig]

Maybe ... this one was originally to work out whether there was interest in the technique, and then I was putting my experiments here to keep them from messing with everyone else's exploration of the idea, but I don't think there's a problem shifting over to just the one thread for future posts, if everyone would prefer that.

Wash photo (test bar - it's still yellow inside, so the change to cream is only at the surface so far ... it will change all the way through eventually). I didn't fuss too much about the tops when I made them, but I'm liking the "geode" look

 

[NsMar42111]

I love the swirl you got! Reminds of me of "Starry Night"!

 

[earlene]

SaltedFig, thank you so much for documenting your journey. I actually like the experimental process you went through as a separate thread. If it gets merged, the posts will all be in chronological order and get lost in the shuffle, IMO.

 

[MySoapyHeart]

Unfortunately I have nothing to contribute with in regards to this new technique yet, but I am taking notes for future endeavors, because it is so fun to see that soapmaking - although one might *think* one have seen it all - still can be evolved using techniques from other places in life, like foodpreparation etc.
Just wanted to say that. Thanks for sharing your idea with the rest of the class, SaltedFig, much appreciated

 

[SaltedFig]

SaltedFig, thank you so much for documenting your journey. I actually like the experimental process you went through as a separate thread. If it gets merged, the posts will all be in chronological order and get lost in the shuffle, IMO.

Unfortunately I have nothing to contribute with in regards to this new technique yet, but I am taking notes for future endeavors, because it is so fun to see that soapmaking - although one might *think* one have seen it all - still can be evolved using techniques from other places in life, like foodpreparation etc.
Just wanted to say that. Thanks for sharing your idea with the rest of the class, SaltedFig, much appreciated

Thank you

A further observation, which ties in with a comment that I saw on another thread (I've been watching for this ... waiting to see!) ...

The SVHP soaps that I overheated after they were made, have started to warp (especially the thinner cut bars).

The bars that were SVHP, without any additional heat after the pour, are showing no signs of warping.

The salty coconut soaps are set in their ways (I doubt their ovoid soap shape will allow them to warp).

So this might be a method caution - these bars might not do well if they are re-heated, or overheated post-pour.