Solid oil massage bar ?

[CecileBC]

Hi everyone,

I would be interested to make a solid oil massage bar.
(Editing the post: in the meantime, I realized that these bars may be called "lotion bars" ? There is quite a lot of information about these here.... )

I think I would use CO, Cocoa, Shea and a wax, and I saw some people add some corn starch but I'm not sure why.
What do you think ? Which proportions would you opt for ?

It may be a silly question, but are the oils saponified ? Probably not ? I was going to ask the following question:
"If I want to use, say, a rice bran wax, would I click on "rice bran oil" in soap calc ?"
...which will be irrelevant if there is no saponification process...

Thanks !

 

[AliOop]

Yes, those are lotion bars, sometimes called butter bars. You don’t saponify them, because then they would be soap, not “lotion.”

I put “lotion” in quotes bc a true lotion contains water or other liquid, plus an emulsifier. But these bars work like lotions in that they are rubbed on to moisturize your skin.

A typical recipe is 1/3 hard butter, 1/3 wax, and 1/3 soft oil. Some folks add corn starch, arrowroot powder/starch to cut the greasiness. I prefer isopropyl myristate for that but not everyone wants to buy that or use it.

Please know the “rice bran wax” isn’t a true wax; it is just hydrogenated rice bran oil, or RBO mixed with a hydrogenated vegetable oil. You probably want a true wax for lotion bars, either beeswax, candelilla, or the like. I’d stay away from solid CO bc it makes for a greasy bar. You could use fractionated CO (the permanently liquid kind) as your liquid oil.

Lots of great threads here on lotion bars will give you more recipe ideas. The great thing is that you basically melt, mix, pour, and unmold when firm.

Be sure to let us know what you make! Lotion bars are fun!

 

[CecileBC]

Yes, those are lotion bars, sometimes called butter bars. You don’t saponify them, because then they would be soap, not “lotion.”

I put “lotion” in quotes bc a true lotion contains water or other liquid, plus an emulsifier. But these bars work like lotions in that they are rubbed on to moisturize your skin.

A typical recipe is 1/3 hard butter, 1/3 wax, and 1/3 soft oil. Some folks add corn starch, arrowroot powder/starch to cut the greasiness. I prefer isopropyl myristate for that but not everyone wants to buy that or use it.

Please know the “rice bran wax” isn’t a true wax; it is just hydrogenated rice bran oil, or RBO mixed with a hydrogenated vegetable oil. You probably want a true wax for lotion bars, either beeswax, candelilla, or the like. I’d stay away from solid CO bc it makes for a greasy bar. You could use fractionated CO (the permanently liquid kind) as your liquid oil.

Lots of great threads here on lotion bars will give you more recipe ideas. The great thing is that you basically melt, mix, pour, and unmold when firm.

Be sure to let us know what you make! Lotion bars are fun!

Hi AliOop !

Thanks for the info !

Last night I made a 1/3 rice bran wax (the only one I had on hand...) 1/3 cocoa/shea (half half), and 1/3 Almond oil. It made a VERY hard bar, not moisturizing at all... Could it be bc of the rice bran wax ?

Then I tried a 40% Cocoa, 35% Shea and 25% rice bran wax. A better result, more moisturizing but still too hard.

Cooling now: 45% Coca, 40 shea and 15% rice bran wax. I'll let you know !

Next step: get a different wax such as candellila.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Hi Cecile,
If you want to use it as an actual massage bar, I think it needs to be softer and more malleable. To achieve that I would tend to decrease the cocoa butter and the waxes, and increase the shea and try some different liquid oils until you get the desired effect.

My current lotion bar recipe is
5% Carnauba wax
30% Soy Wax
12% Cocoa Butter
25% Shea Butter
27% liquid oils.

I'm guessing, like me, you are wanting vegan massage bars? And that's why you're not using bees wax?

My recipe above is suitable for lotion, but I don't know how long it would last (in terms of oil left on the skin) if you are using it as a massage bar. To me, a massage bar would need to be more oily so that you have something to work with. If it instantly absorbs, that's not going to be much use.

I recently had the pleasure of being a recipient of @Zing's lotion bar - all the way from USA to NZ! I totally love his lotion bars, they absorb directly into the skin on contact with no oily residue, and leave the skin feeling soft as a baby's bottom. They would, however, be hopeless as a massage bar. I daresay he finds my lotion bar (sent from NZ to USA) a tad greasy, because it is compared to his. It takes about a minute or two to absorb. I think you would need a recipe like mine, and even more 'greasy' for want of a better word, to massage with.

I think Zing uses the '1/3 of each' rule (wax/butter/liquid) and i know he uses beeswax and mango butter. Mango butter absorbs very readily into the skin - so again, this would not be best for massage. Cocoa butter is very hard ( I use it in mine to help them stay hard) and so also doesn't 'linger' on the skin - you may need this for hardness, but I wouldn't use too much.

I formulated my recipe to be hard enough to maintain its integrity through our very humid and hot summer, but there is still some liquid oil in there - and you seem to have omitted that in your latter recipes? I would try making a recipe that still includes a liquid oil. Maybe have a wee search on the internet? I found this relatively easily: 15 Body Massage Oils And Their Benefits

 

[CecileBC]

I'm guessing, like me, you are wanting vegan massage bars? And that's why you're not using bees wax?

Hi there !

Yes, vegan indeed. Thanks a million for sharing your recipe: I'll try it to see what a lotion bar is like.
And then work from there to make it oily enough for massages.

I formulated my recipe to be hard enough to maintain its integrity through our very humid and hot summer, but there is still some liquid oil in there - and you seem to have omitted that in your latter recipes?

Yes I wanted to try with only the three ingredients (cocoa, wax, shea) which is the recipe of a company selling massage bars here. They only change the EOs in their bars. It must be a cost-effective recipe....

This morning, I tried the 45% Cocoa + 40% Shea + 15% rice bran wax has turned out sufficiently hard and leaves oil on the skin. However, I have never had a massage bar in my hands so have no idea if it's the desired effect.... when you handle it, it is a little oily but not "wet", although you'd have some oil left on your hands.
When you handle your lotion bars, do they feel a little oily ? or do they "release" their oil once rubbed in hands ?

Thanks for the link

 

[CecileBC]

A typical recipe is 1/3 hard butter, 1/3 wax, and 1/3 soft oil. Some folks add corn starch, arrowroot powder/starch to cut the greasiness. I prefer isopropyl myristate for that but not everyone wants to buy that or use it.

AliOop, I forgot to ask you: I have some Isopropyl myristate: how much would you add to the recipe ? Thanks!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Yes I wanted to try with only the three ingredients (cocoa, wax, shea) which is the recipe of a company selling massage bars here. They only change the EOs in their bars. It must be a cost-effective recipe....

I don’t think it sounds very cost effective. Cocoa butter is hellishly expensive here, and Shea is one of my more expensive ingredients - though still only about 1/2 the price of cocoa.

When you handle your lotion bars, do they feel a little oily ? or do they "release" their oil once rubbed in hands ?

Thanks for the link

They feel similar to a bar of cold processed soap, but maybe a little oilier.

 

[CecileBC]

I don’t think it sounds very cost effective. Cocoa butter is hellishly expensive here, and Shea is one of my more expensive ingredients - though still only about 1/2 the price of cocoa.

For us here, shea comes right after OO, sesame oil, same price as CO. Then Cocoa butter (around the same price as Sweet almond). Then comes hemp, avocado, apricot... Mango is way up there with hazelnut, wheat germ, argan, etc..

 

[CecileBC]

I recently had the pleasure of being a recipient of @Zing's lotion bar - all the way from USA to NZ! I

So nice to see these worldwide exchanges of practise, Next step: house exchanges !

 

[AliOop]

AliOop, I forgot to ask you: I have some Isopropyl myristate: how much would you add to the recipe ? Thanks!

I use IPM at 1-2% of the recipe, but you can go a lot higher if the bar is still greasy-feeling. However, the purpose of IPM is to increase the absorption rate. As @KiwiMoose noted, that is the exact opposite of what you want for a massage bar.

As Kiwi also noted, the purpose of the wax is to raise the melting temp of the bar. That may also be counterproductive to using the bar for massages, as opposed to just moisturizing the skin. Of course, we are talking about a true wax, not the fake "wax" that in your hydrogenated oil; those will not really raise the melting temp much (with the exception being soy wax).

However, you may not need to raise the melting temp of your bars. One does not generally conduct massages out in public, and thus will not need to carry a massage bar in one's purse, for instance, where is could melt in hot cars, etc.

Can you get grapeseed oil at a reasonable price? That is frequently used in massage oils here in the US, as it has nice "slip" without feeling super greasy.

In the end, there is no single "right" way to make these. What's "right" is what works for your intended purpose, including how you will use it AND how you will store it AND whether you will be transporting it in a variety of temperatures.

HTH!

 

[CecileBC]

I use IPM at 1-2% of the recipe, but you can go a lot higher if the bar is still greasy-feeling. However, the purpose of IPM is to increase the absorption rate. As @KiwiMoose noted, that is the exact opposite of what you want for a massage bar.

As Kiwi also noted, the purpose of the wax is to raise the melting temp of the bar. That may also be counterproductive to using the bar for massages, as opposed to just moisturizing the skin. Of course, we are talking about a true wax, not the fake "wax" that in your hydrogenated oil; those will not really raise the melting temp much (with the exception being soy wax).

However, you may not need to raise the melting temp of your bars. One does not generally conduct massages out in public, and thus will not need to carry a massage bar in one's purse, for instance, where is could melt in hot cars, etc.

Can you get grapeseed oil at a reasonable price? That is frequently used in massage oils here in the US, as it has nice "slip" without feeling super greasy.

In the end, there is no single "right" way to make these. What's "right" is what works for your intended purpose, including how you will use it AND how you will store it AND whether you will be transporting it in a variety of temperatures.

HTH!

Yes it does help !
I take notes every time I get an answer from all of you, and it is starting to make sense
It will be a fine balance between a strong resistant bar that does not melt in summer on shelves or in the packaging, and one that is moisturizing enough and releases its oils only when in contact with the skin.
I'm on it !
The good thing, as you said, is the incredibly short waiting time before we see the result, which makes a big difference with soap making

 

[Blufuz]

I made these:
https://www.humblebeeandme.com/cinnamon-cocoa-massage-bars/
Of all my non-soap products, they’re the ones I feel are actually as good or better than commercial ones. They linger just enough to be great for massages, but aren’t sticky or take ages to absorb. They don’t make for good hand lotions though; once the oil is absorbed, your skin doesn’t feel much different.

 

[CecileBC]

I made these:
https://www.humblebeeandme.com/cinnamon-cocoa-massage-bars/
Of all my non-soap products, they’re the ones I feel are actually as good or better than commercial ones. They linger just enough to be great for massages, but aren’t sticky or take ages to absorb. They don’t make for good hand lotions though; once the oil is absorbed, your skin doesn’t feel much different.

They look lovely !
Do you find that bringing the batter to trace is ok, not too time consuming ?

 

[Blufuz]

They look lovely !
Do you find that bringing the batter to trace is ok, not too time consuming ?

Takes a lot less time than soap

 

[AliOop]

They look lovely !
Do you find that bringing the batter to trace is ok, not too time consuming ?

"Trace" isn't really an issue with lotion bars - just thorough melting and mixing.

 

[CecileBC]

"Trace" isn't really an issue with lotion bars - just thorough melting and mixing.

Do I have to mix after melting or is it just with this jojoba recipe ? The first ones I made I just poured when the oils were completely melted...

 

[Blufuz]

Do I have to mix after melting or is it just with this jojoba recipe ? The first ones I made I just poured when the oils were completely melted...

The mixing was more to be in control of when the oils turn solid, and not letting them separate. I chose that recipe as a first attempt specifically because it had such detailed instructions; but I think it’s a lot more forgiving than soap.

 

[AliOop]

Agreed, I like to mix it just to be sure the oils are evenly incorporated. A simple spatula is fine for this.

 

[CecileBC]

Thank you both !

 

[CecileBC]

My recipe above is suitable for lotion, but I don't know how long it would last (in terms of oil left on the skin) if you are using it as a massage bar. To me, a massage bar would need to be more oily so that you have something to work with. If it instantly absorbs, that's not going to be much use.

Hi !
I've just tried your recipe but with ingredients I had on hand, which means it is most probably NOT like yours - but I can see that yours would be perfect for a lotion bar !

For the waxes, instead of 30% soy and 5 carnauba, I used 15% rice bran wax and 20% olive wax.
For butters: same as your 25% shea and 12% cocoa
For oils: I used 28% coconut oil to make for the oilyness that stays on the skin during massages.

It gives a bar that is solid enough to handle, and releases its oils on contact with the skin. It may still feel a little dry when pressed on the skin, so I may have to adjust the moisture a little, but it's a very satisfying bar!
I can see why the carnauba: if I add moisture, I can see the need for extra strength. It's on my next purchase list.

So next one: more oil, more strength.