Soft crumbly soap. What happened?

[Feelin' Soapy]

I'm newbie and have had success with my first three soaps, all with an olive oil base. I decided to try using lard for my fourth batch and it seems to be a total flop. I ran the recipe through Soapmakingfriend lye calculator and measured carefully. My recipe was:
65% lard
20% olive oil
15% coconut oil (76 deg)
I also added 1 tsp mango FO
After 25 hours, I tried but couldn't removed the silicone mold from the wood box. I put it in the freezer for about 2 hours, but that didn't help. I let it sit until a total of about 45 hours, and with some effort was able to remove the silicone mold. It released easily from the mold but split into 2 pieces. The soap is still a bit soft and crumbles easily. Any idea what I did wrong?

 

[shunt2011]

You're going to need to post your recipes in measurements including liquid/lye and any other additives. Also, list your process for making it. Also, you should be weighing your FO/EO.

 

[atiz]

Hm.... that should be a nice recipe.
How much water did you use? Are you sure you measured correctly?

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

You're going to need to post your recipes in measurements including liquid/lye and any other additives. Also, list your process for making it. Also, you should be weighing your FO/EO.

Okay, here's some more info: I did CP, mixed water and lye when they were 94 and 102 degrees respectively. I added FO at thin trace, then separated into 4 cups and added color to 3 (leaving one natural). Poured into a 10" loaf mold. Here's the measurements:
Lard 21.06 oz
Olive oil 6.48 oz
Coconut oil 4.86 oz
Water 9.01 oz
Lye 4.5 oz
FO .94 oz
I also used ArtMinds Soap Colorant (from Michael's). About .5 ml total.

Hm.... that should be a nice recipe.
How much water did you use? Are you sure you measured correctly?

I used a digital scale and measured very carefully. As a beginner, I'm maybe over-scrupulous about measuring precisely (except for the color in this case because it I put it in by drops until it achieved a good color).

 

[shunt2011]

Everything looks okay. I think you just waited too long to cut it. Where did you get your fragrance. Art mind is made for MP. And may cause issues in CP.

 

[atiz]

I used a digital scale and measured very carefully. As a beginner, I'm maybe over-scrupulous about measuring precisely (except for the color in this case because it I put it in by drops until it achieved a good color).

Strange things can happen sometimes; looks like you did everything great.
Maybe it was the timing; maybe the fragrance; maybe we'll never find out
But it looks like a nice so, hope you can salvage the uncrumbled part!

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

Everything looks okay. I think you just waited too long to cut it. Where did you get your fragrance. Art mind is made for MP. And may cause issues in CP.

I tried to unmold at 25 hours but could not get the silicone mold out of the wood box. Soap was soft, so after freezing for 2 hours didn't work, I left it in the mold until about 45 hours.
Fragrance was given to me by a friend who no longer soaps but did make CP soap, and there's no label on the bottle.
I didn't know ArtMind was for MP because it didn't say on the pkg. I used it because it was cheap and I thought good while I'm learning. Oops!
Thanks for sharing your help and experience!

Strange things can happen sometimes; looks like you did everything great.
Maybe it was the timing; maybe the fragrance; maybe we'll never find out
But it looks like a nice so, hope you can salvage the uncrumbled part!

Seems like maybe the Michael's colors were the problem. I would like to better understand what are the best colorants for CP -- oxides, pigments, micas...? So much to learn!

 

[atiz]

Seems like maybe the Michael's colors were the problem. I would like to better understand what are the best colorants for CP -- oxides, pigments, micas...? So much to learn!

A lot of people use micas -- but I think you need to check whether they are CP-soap safe.
You can also experiment with natural colorants, which are less reliable but more fun.
When I was once out of all possible colorants of the color I wanted, I used some lake dye. It worked well, although you really need just a teeeny bit of it to have an already too vibrant color (for my taste...).
Good luck, experimenting is part of the fun!

 

[shunt2011]

I use micas and oxides some ultramarines. Brambleberry is close to you so shipping may be decent. I use mostly Nuture Soap micas or Micas and More to TKB Trading.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

Being that the colorant I used is the most likely culprit, is this batch a total loss or can I rebatch it with success?
Meantime, I just put in an order at Nurture for several micas and a couple of clays to experiment with. I've got the fever!
Thanks, everyone for your helpful input!

I use micas and oxides some ultramarines. Brambleberry is close to you so shipping may be decent. I use mostly Nuture Soap micas or Micas and More to TKB Trading.

Just this minute sent in my order to Nurture. They had me at free shipping with $30 purchase!

 

[DeeAnna]

From the lightness of the colors as well as your comment that the soap is soft and crumbly, I suspect your soap simply didn't get warm enough to gel. When my soap doesn't gel, it has the same characteristics.

If it is brittle and hard, it can also crumble when cut, but I don't get the feeling that's the problem here especially since this recipe isn't one that is likely to make brittle soap.

Your soap is probably otherwise okay, but if you want your next batch of soap to be firmer when you unmold, let it get warmer.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

From the lightness of the colors as well as your comment that the soap is soft and crumbly, I suspect your soap simply didn't get warm enough to gel. When my soap doesn't gel, it has the same characteristics.

If it is brittle and hard, it can also crumble when cut, but I don't get the feeling that's the problem here especially since this recipe isn't one that is likely to make brittle soap.

Your soap is probably otherwise okay, but if you want your next batch of soap to be firmer when you unmold, let it get warmer.

You're right, this batch didn't seem to get very warm. Probably also because of the wrong kind of color I used. If those colors made the soap not gel or firm up properly, can I melt down the whole batch and rebatch it into something else? Or does it just need to get tossed and chalked up to experience?

 

[atiz]

You're right, this batch didn't seem to get very warm. Probably also because of the wrong kind of color I used. If those colors made the soap not gel or firm up properly, can I melt down the whole batch and rebatch it into something else? Or does it just need to get tossed and chalked up to experience?

I would just keep it. If it did not gel, it will still get harder, just more slowly. If you can slice it, then slice it, and then cure it for a few weeks and see. If you cannot cut it right now, wait a couple of days and try again.
I guess you could also oven-process it, but I don't have any experience with that so not sure how much of a hassle it is. I'd really just wait.

 

[SPowers]

Seems like maybe the Michael's colors were the problem. I would like to better understand what are the best colorants for CP -- oxides, pigments, micas...? So much to learn!

I've found that Michael's has very little for CP soap - at least where I'm at. I use lard the majority of the time... recipe not too dissimilar from yours and have never had that issue. I think it's the color, FO or both. Some FO's are not suitable for cold process.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

I tried cutting it into bars. Most of it just crumbled. I set the only 2 surviving bars aside to see if they cure. Most of the batch is just crumbles in a jar right now. Should I toss it or can it be rebatched?

 

[atiz]

I tried cutting it into bars. Most of it just crumbled. I set the only 2 surviving bars aside to see if they cure. Most of the batch is just crumbles in a jar right now. Should I toss it or can it be rebatched?

You could use it as confetti maybe? = mix it in some other soap.
Rebatching is a whole pain.

 

[cmzaha]

I really do not know what the color would have to do with crumbly soap. Normally if colors are not compatible with cp it is a ph issue and they either turn funky colors or fade to nothing. But what do I know I have been wrong before. It could simply have been a timing issue when cutting an ungelled soap.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

I think I figured it out! In doing some more soap reading (seems that's about all I'm reading lately!) I came across a couple posts about false trace and it matched the problems with this batch. This was my first time using lard, making this batch 80% hard oils. I thought it got to trace awfully quick
I just rebatched the whole mess and it's looking better already.
Thanks so much for all your thoughts and suggestions. This forum is a tremendous source of information and encouragement!