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Sodium palm kernelate

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Eyad

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Hello everyone;

I am searching for supplier that sell Sodium palm kernelate.
I searched the web but unfortunately I didnt find any.

Thank you
 

Eyad

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Lovehound said:
Make your own. Combine PKO with a lye/water mixture.
Thanx for replay;
Do you mean reqular PKO with lye and water?
If so, what is the %?
And is it the same as Sodium palm kernelate?

Thank you again
 
G

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My answer was a bit flip. I meant that "Sodium palm kernelate" is a technical name for palm kernel oil that has been saponified by the addition of a suitable mixture of lye (sodium hydroxide) and water.

Perhaps if you tell us what you are trying to accomplish you can get a better answer than my initial reply. I admit that my reply was fairly useless. Please provide a context for your question.
 

happyday

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Are you by any chance reading the ingredients on a soap label, and hoping to add some of this product to your own soap recipe?

"Sodium palm kernelate" is a chemist's way of saying "palm kernel oil that has been saponified (turned into soap by adding lye solution.) So you don't actually buy sodium palm kernelate to add to your soap recipe, you add palm kernel oil and it becomes sodium palm kernelate during the saponification process. Same for your other oils -- Coconut oil becomes sodium cocoate, beef fat becomes sodium tallowate, olive oil becomes sodium olivate, etc.

HTH
 
G

Guest

I'm getting weary of this debate about hypothetical substances called things like sodium olivate or sodium palm kernelate, like they were some kind of chemicals. Taking PKO for example, it is not an pure substance composed of a single chemical. It is a mixture of fatty acids including lauric acid, myristic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid and probably lesser amounts of other fatty acids.

When the sodium hydroxide (lye) reacts with lauric acid it produces a fatty acid salt. I'm just guessing at the name but I suggest this may be sodium laurate. (It also releases glycerin in the reaction.) The lye reacting with myristic acid produces probably sodium myristate or something like that, palmitic turning into sodium palmate, oleic turning into sodium oleate.

Fatty acids combine with the alkaline base sodium hydroxide and produce fatty acid salts. A cooking oil is not composed of a single fatty acid so the saponified results will be a variety of fatty acid salts, not just one chemical, not something mythical like sodium palm kernelate.

All that sodium -ate stuff is hype, made up by people who are afraid the public will freak out if they discover that soap is made with drain cleaner. There is no such thing as sodium palm kernelate. It is not a valid chemical. It was made up for advertising purposes. It's a myth.
 

happyday

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Agreed, Greg. Instead of saying "sodium whatever" is a "chemist's way of saying", I should have written that it's a "more erudite-sounding way" or something. The nomenclature was created by INCI as a way to try to describe the various altered oils as they exist in the finished soap. Kind of a confusing unnecessary step IMHO, that indicates that some chemical transformation of the oils has taken place, but doesn't go all the way to actually revealing the chemistry.
 
G

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Happy, it may have appeared that I was responding to you but I meant nothing of the sort. I was responding to the whole concept of "sodium -ate" and the whole unscientific basis for it. Now don't give me credit for being a chemist because I'm not. However I took two years of chemistry in college, and while I'm sure I've forgotten 95% of my classes, I remember enough to put it together with reading and researching on the Internet.

My post above was my own idea and I have no authoritative source to support what I said, but I'll be surprised and embarrassed if it turns out I'm wrong.

Are you sure that "sodium -ate" stuff is supported by INCI? I'll find that surprising, and perhaps I may be wrong about the whole thing. But I think I'm right at least as far as there being no chemical sodium palm kernelate, or any of the others.

I wasn't responding to you at all, nor was I responding to the author of the OP who simply asked an innocent question, nor did I intend to correct or debate with anybody. I was just frustrated and felt like ranting. My comment was a rant.
 

happyday

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Yes, I understood exactly where you were coming from, and didn't take anything personally. It did, however, make me re-read what I had written, and realize -- not for the first time in my life -- that somehow the thoughts in my head didn't come out of my fingers quite the way I wanted them to. I hope I don't lead people to construe my discussion of things I believe to be facts as my support for those facts. I fully agree with you that those names are confusing, sound silly, and in the US where we have lax labelling requirements for soap, allow the manufacturer to sidestep the drain cleaner announcement and potentially mislead consumers into a false sense of "magic ingredients". I'm one who believes that the more the general public understands about how things work, the better off they are.

I'm afraid that INCI does, indeed, support all the "oil-ate" names. Sorry to ruin your day, although I believe it's nothing that a relaxing tub with some superfatted sodium cocoate and sodium chloride soap nicely scented with lime and ginger won't fix! :mrgreen: Here are a couple of references...

The easy to read one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... ngredients

And the better-have-high-speed, read-till-your-eyes-cross one, which lists, for example, Sodium Cocoate on page 508 and Sodium Olivate on page 524. Yikes!
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/cosmetic ... i_2006.pdf
 

Eyad

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Thank you all for replay and for the useful information that you posted.

I posted a replay 4 hrs ago, I think someone delite it, anyway;
I found a formula on a soap pack and I want to try make this formula, the formula contain Sodium Palm Kernalate, and SLS, but what I understand that both of them are detergant, plus Sodium Palm Kernalate is surfactant, is that true?
But why the combine both of them together????
And no one ansewr my question: Where can I find a supplier for Sodium Palm Kernalate?
Thank you all
 

cdwinsby

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Sodium Palm Kernalate is just a fancy way of saying soap made with palm kernal oil. It's not really an ingredient you buy to put in soap but a result of the chemical reactions occuring when making soap. As far as I know, you can't just buy it.
 
G

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happyday said:
Yes, I understood exactly where you were coming from, and didn't take anything personally. It did, however, make me re-read what I had written, and realize -- not for the first time in my life -- that somehow the thoughts in my head didn't come out of my fingers quite the way I wanted them to.
Yeah, that happens a lot on the Internet, to you, to me, to everybody. On occasion I have insulted people intentionally, but I hate the thought that I might do it accidentally so I wanted to make it completely clear that I was just making a rant against this pseudo-scientific babble with them trying to make names that sound like real chemicals when they're not. It is practically the same thing as me saponifying my dog and calling him sodium dogate. Of course I like my dog better unsaponiified. ;)

Like Cathy said above, sodium palm kernelate is a silly name for soap made out of palm kernel oil. If your heart is set on having some, learn to make CP soap and make your own. It's easy. As far as the SLS, although most people are trying to avoid it rather than use it, you should be able to buy that from one of the cosmetic ingredient suppliers, although I have no idea who.

Here's my own idea of labeling:

Ingredients: soap, fragrances, colorants.

Product claims: gets you clean.

:)
 
G

Guest

Actually Cathy I was perhaps kidding a bit. If I start selling soap I'll list all the oils in order of quantity, I'll include sodium hydroxide in its proper place. Most people probably don't even know that sodium hydroxide is lye, and probably most of those who know wouldn't be scared of it. The remaining few who are still scared even after being told that all soap is made with lye can use syndet bars for all I care. I doubt that more than 1-2 percent of potential customers would be deterred by the mention of sodium hydroxide on your label.

It would be a bad idea to list it as "lye." Sodium hydroxide is the way to go. Isn't that related to sodium chloride, common table salt? ;) ;) ;)
 

cdwinsby

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I know...I just liked the blunt humour!

We definately have to list the ingredients when selling a product, I agree.
 

IrishLass

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Eyad-

If you saw the ingredient 'Sodium Palm Kernelate' on a soap pack along with Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, this leads me to believe it is a commercially made soap, as opposed to a handmade soap.

I'm certainly not an expert, but I do a lot of reading on different soap forums, and from what I've read, commercial makers of soap take Sodium Palm Kernelate (soap made with lye and palm kernel oil), and they grind it up into flakes, and then they use huge, machine driven pressure rollers to compress, or mill the flakes along with the other ingredients into bars of soap.

This is all done on a huge factory-type scale with equipment that is quite substantial and not available, or in any way practicle or affordable to the home soapcrafter, unless you're very well-off and happen to own a factory, that is. :wink:

With that being said, the next best thing a home soapcrafter can do with the modest equipment we have on hand is what is called 'rebatching'. You can buy unscented blocks of CP soap, or soap flakes (some call them soap noodles) that have been already made and cured from oils and lye, and you can melt them down to a gel-like consistancy, adding fragrance, color, and/or other additives to it, and then glop the melted, gelly-like brew into molds where they will harden back up into soap.

Here are some places to buy already-made CP (made from oils and lye) soap bases for rebatching (all of them are good companies with good reputations):

http://www.brambleberry.com/soapbases.html

http://www.soapcrafters.com/category.gc?ID=647

http://soapsandsundries.com/reba.html

http://www.pvsoap.com/soap_bases.asp

Just so you know, the finished rebatched soap will not look as smooth or streamlined as the commercially made soap, or handmade CP-first-time-around soap. It will have a rustic-look to it, but in my book, that is a plus, not a minus. I love the primitive look of rebatches soaps (as well as the streamlined look, too). I guess I just like variety. :)


IrishLass :)
 
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