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My DREAM soap?
  • Creamy bubbly lather with little tiny silky bubbles (but a veritable **** load of them)
  • I have been going after this via the "creamy" number - perhaps this is a mistake?
    • I am not sure if I am describing this right - I like little slippery bubbles and a creamy lather - does that make sense?
  • Non-stripping / drying as I have dry skin
    • I have been going after this by limiting coconut, and targeting lowish cleansing number
    • I also try to maximize the conditioning number
    • I usually SF between 5 and 7%
  • I don't worry too much about the hardness and longevity numbers, as I am more focused on the feel of the soap in use
  • I like "slip" so i often add a bit of kaolin clay
  • I keep my lye concentration in the 30 - 32 range
I am a bit of a soap addict - I have 10 - 12 bars in my shower at all times in little wire trays that stick to the tile with suction cups - so I have a lot in rotation lol!

Here are two recipes I made today in small batches (about 8 oz) so I can start to get more disciplined - and I took good notes on trace, etc. It chapps my impatient ADHD a$$ to have to wait four whole weeks. But I am trying!

I am zeroing in on limiting coconut to about 20%; incorporating castor at no more than 5%; I really like the feel of mango butter, so I am playing with that as well.

The journey continues! SO much to learn! SO much fun doing so - just PLEASE could somebody invent a time machine for soap aging????

Thanks for asking @Amy78130 !!!
 

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OMG you sound just like me! I have ADD and sometimes start out making soap but then end up making lotion or shampoo bars or whatever other shiny recipe that catches my attention. I’ll look through my notes and see if I have any soap recipes you might like..
 
Just out of curiosity, what properties are you looking for in your perfect soap recipe? I’ve driven myself mad at times too. Especially trying to get a hard, super bubbly but also moisturizing/non drying bar! Maybe some of the awesome soap makers on here can help with suggestions!

In terms of being non-drying, it will all come down to ones specific skin-type. In other words, what I consider to be a non-drying soap might be very drying to someone else. For example, my tallow/lard soap is good and hard and super bubbly due to it's butter content and a 30.5% combo of coconut oil and PKO, and it's also non-drying to myself and my family (I superfat it @ 8%), but I know if I were to give a bar of it to our forum member Susie, she would run screaming from the shower in search for the nearest lotion bottle post haste!. lol Her skin type can only tolerate so much of the cleansing/bubbly oils (I think she only uses something like 15% of them, total, if I remember right).

Anyway, there's just no other way around good old fashioned trial and error experimentation to find out what your skin likes.

And when it comes to bubbly lather, it would be remiss of me if I didn't let you know that there are other variables at play besides how much of the bubbly/cleansing oils you have in your formula...such as the quality of the water that's piped into your home, i.e., hard or soft. Hard water will cut down on your soap's lathering abilities. Ask me how I know! lol I've got very hard water in my house. In order to combat the lather killing effects of my water, I add a small % of a chelator to my soap formula.


IrishLass :)
 
In terms of being non-drying, it will all come down to ones specific skin-type. In other words, what I consider to be a non-drying soap might be very drying to someone else. For example, my tallow/lard soap is good and hard and super bubbly due to it's butter content and a 30.5% combo of coconut oil and PKO, and it's also non-drying to myself and my family (I superfat it @ 8%), but I know if I were to give a bar of it to our forum member Susie, she would run screaming from the shower in search for the nearest lotion bottle post haste!. lol Her skin type can only tolerate so much of the cleansing/bubbly oils (I think she only uses something like 15% of them, total, if I remember right).

Anyway, there's just no other way around good old fashioned trial and error experimentation to find out what your skin likes.

And when it comes to bubbly lather, it would be remiss of me if I didn't let you know that there are other variables at play besides how much of the bubbly/cleansing oils you have in your formula...such as the quality of the water that's piped into your home, i.e., hard or soft. Hard water will cut down on your soap's lathering abilities. Ask me how I know! lol I've got very hard water in my house. In order to combat the lather killing effects of my water, I add a small % of a chelator to my soap formula.


IrishLass :)
Very true! I guess the quest is finding the perfect (on paper) recipe to start. Then figure out if it’s something our own skin can tolerate after testing a small batch. I’m sure we’ve all obsessed over the starting point of our soap making creative process. It is after all a learning process. I consider myself lucky to be in such good company here on this forum with all of you awesome soapmakers! Do you use EDTA to counter the hard water at your house?
 
My DREAM soap?
  • Creamy bubbly lather with little tiny silky bubbles (but a veritable **** load of them)
  • I have been going after this via the "creamy" number - perhaps this is a mistake?
    • I am not sure if I am describing this right - I like little slippery bubbles and a creamy lather - does that make sense?
  • Non-stripping / drying as I have dry skin
    • I have been going after this by limiting coconut, and targeting lowish cleansing number
    • I also try to maximize the conditioning number
    • I usually SF between 5 and 7%
  • I don't worry too much about the hardness and longevity numbers, as I am more focused on the feel of the soap in use
  • I like "slip" so i often add a bit of kaolin clay
  • I keep my lye concentration in the 30 - 32 range
I am a bit of a soap addict - I have 10 - 12 bars in my shower at all times in little wire trays that stick to the tile with suction cups - so I have a lot in rotation lol!

Here are two recipes I made today in small batches (about 8 oz) so I can start to get more disciplined - and I took good notes on trace, etc. It chapps my impatient ADHD a$$ to have to wait four whole weeks. But I am trying!

I am zeroing in on limiting coconut to about 20%; incorporating castor at no more than 5%; I really like the feel of mango butter, so I am playing with that as well.

The journey continues! SO much to learn! SO much fun doing so - just PLEASE could somebody invent a time machine for soap aging????

Thanks for asking @Amy78130 !!!

I just dropped my cleansing number 7 due to dryness and am getting plenty of lather because I'm using almond oil as my HO. I'm surprised how little CO is actually necessary for lather.

I've decided to use a bar from new recipes for hand washing. That way I get my use fix until they are cured long enough for the shower.
 
I've found the numbers don't tell the whole story. You just have to start making and testing them out ;)

Your right!

what properties are you looking for in your perfect soap recipe?

Depends on the day,

Guinevere
 
I remember as a kid when we got a whole house water softener and I thought i died and went to heaven! Maybe that is where my obsession with silky creamy suds started.

I don't know how hard my water is here in GA but I know it is neither super hard nor particularly soft - so - I am gonna investigate a chelator!

I LOVE THIS FORUM AND ALL YOU FABULOUSLY HELPFUL PEOPLE!!!!
 
Just out of curiosity, what properties are you looking for in your perfect soap recipe? I’ve driven myself mad at times too. Especially trying to get a hard, super bubbly but also moisturizing/non drying bar! Maybe some of the awesome soap makers on here can help with suggestions!


Now that I think about it, it’s kind it two of this and one of the other. I guess that’s why it’s not only important to run it through a soap calculator but to always go ahead and make it. I was reading somewhere, sorry the place has escaped me now however our soap numbers can turn out differently depending on humidity as well as other factors.

Guinevere
 
Yep, bubbles are also non-negotiable. Oh, and I use 5% Castor Oil in every batch. I forgot that bit.

I tend to use lard/tallow blend in the summer, and straight lard in the winter. Lard gives a rich, creamy lather, and tallow gives bigger bubbles, but less "creaminess". Castor Oil supports the structure of the bubbles for lack of a better way of describing it. It keeps your bubbles around longer, thereby creating the sensation of more lather.
 
I just dropped my cleansing number 7 due to dryness and am getting plenty of lather because I'm using almond oil as my HO. I'm surprised how little CO is actually necessary for lather.

I've decided to use a bar from new recipes for hand washing. That way I get my use fix until they are cured long enough for the shower.

Lather from my 10 CO aloe bar. The bubbles get tinier and creamier the longer I wash. Not bad for a 1 wk old bar.
upload_2019-3-2_18-29-58.jpeg
 
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Try dual lye (95% Naoh and 5% Koh). You will get wonderful bubbly soap that bubbles straight away. Since it becomes so bubbly, you can also use those last slivers almost to the end, which is a bonus. Dual lye is wonderful! I tested it once out of curiosity, and finally got a soap that was like a dream. I made soap today, of course with a handful of mistakes as always, and of course using dual lye. That way I know I can get a soap that feels really nice regardless how much I mess it up along the way.

If you want to know my mistakes, today it was as follows:

Measured 4 grams of wax (stearic and palmitic mix) instead of 30. Grabbed my lye bottle, and it was empty! Just when I had everything ready. Luckily I found another bottle. I almost forgot my scent, but remembered it in time. I had set my stickblender beforehand at the minimum speed. When I grabbed it and used it, it was at max! I could not get it down, but I think I pressed the wrong button. My micas mixed in oil from the recipe went solid (I took oil from the recipe after I had melted the hard oils in, I should have taken it before melting). So I had to microwave them. Everything looked fine when I add the lye to the oils and stirred, even if I realized as soon as I dumped in the scent that it was strongly floral and expected a seize. As soon I came in there with my stickblender, it thickened like crazy. Even if I did hardly use it. My plan was to pulse 2-3 times at minimum speed, and not more. It became 3-4 times at maximum speed. I should not have used it at all. I had to hurry like crazy to divide it into the cups with color. The perfect Clyde slide I had in vision, well, it became blob-blob in the mold. If I had a hanger, I would have tried a hanger swirl (my soap was too thick, but not seized in any way). But had nothing and let it be like that. I was afraid to make another disaster. What I should have done, and it struck me after the soap was in the mold, so too late. I should have dumped everything back in the bowl, and then dumped the soap from the bowl into the mold from high height. That way it will be a clyde slide, even with a too thick soap. I have done that before, and it turned out just perfect. When cutting I was expecting a mistake but got a success. And that success should have been repeated. But well, too late. Blobs can be nice too, I hope. I did remember to line my mold ahead in time. Which can not be taken for granted around here.

The worst thing is the 26 grams of wax too little. I used -1 (yes, minus) in superfat, because I added 10 grams of citric acid, and didn't bother to do calculations. As soon I realized I had measured 26 grams less, I started to get really worried about lye-heavy soap. So I had to do more calculations to estimate if it was lye-heavy or not. And luckily it isn't, because my lye was not 100% pure (it had a big lump inside, so I guessed it to 92%. But I have no clue, really). I measured 5 grams more of one fat, just because the whole package was 5 grams over and I didn't bother to take it out. Luckily I had 26 grams too little wax, because my superfat was already at 10% (not accurate since I don't know my lye purity, but my lye is old). I wanted to try less superfat this time, so I hoped for around 5%.

So yes, very clumsy as always. I have too little hands-on experience, that is the fault. I have gained lots of experience in working with soap thickening up on me, that's for sure. I think I can make it work if I next time don't use the stickblender, just stir, and choose a fragrance guaranteed not to accellerate (I have no idea if the fragrance made trouble today or not). I used Petra from Eroma, which I think is a perfume dupe. Too strong, even if I did not use all of those 25 grams (2,5%) I had measured out, I used maybe 20 grams. I will go down to 1,5% fragrance. It should be plenty. Scents from Eroma don't fade much, it seems. My old toilet-cube-smelling soap (horrible coconut flower) have only faded a tiny bit, and if I have tried to air it as much as possible.

Well, back to dual lye. If you want to give it a try, you must find a calculator that does dual lye, or calculate the old fashioned way.
Dee-Anna knows how to do it (it is not very difficult): https://classicbells.com/soap/dualLye.html
 
What worked for me is to pick one basic recipe as a starting point. After 3-4 days try using a small piece to wash your hands or take a shower to see how you feel about it and keep the rest to try again after four weeks. Testing immediately won't tell you exactly how the soap will be after it cures, but you can still do some comparison between batches to rapidly tweak the recipe.

Once you've done your early test, see what you liked and didn't like and adjust the numbers accordingly, and keep doing that until you're mostly happy. From there I tried substituting butters and soft oils, usually swapping out 10% of one ingredient at a time, to see how that would change the recipe while still being in the number range.

After you've settled on the oil/butter composition, start looking at additives to improve on anything you think is still not good enough. For me this was not enough bubbles, so I started trying different additives and liquid substitutions until I landed on sodium citrate and 50% aloe vera juice.

Finally after they've had a chance to cure, test them again to see if the final results match the early tests and keep changing if there are more things you want to change.

It's very slow going. It took me a few months and 12-14 test batches before I felt like I was done and I'm just about to start with a second vegan recipe, but I'm very happy with how it turned out.
 
No, no, not asking for help, was just babling away. But I will ask for help very soon. Because I did cut my soap, and it is a disaster inside! I took pictures, but my crappy camera did focus everywhere else than at the soap. I need to borrow a phone with a good camera. As soon as I have the pictures ready I will ask for help. But I think I have found out what is going on. I think it is partial gel with glycerin rivers. Not funny! My blobby soap looked beautiful inside! But of course the joy was soon to be destroyed :-(
 

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