Soapmaking Friend - Part 4

Discussion in 'SoapmakingFriend.com Support Forum' started by Admin, Dec 12, 2018.

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  1. Dec 19, 2018 #21

    Jenn Lee

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    I have been using the Soapmaking Friend calculator for the last 4 recipes. I generally like it, though it has had some minor glitches which appear to be fixed now. My biggest issue is with how it prints. I like to include as much information as possible on 1 page because I print them & write notes on the recipe and keep it in my Soap Binder. In the 4 recipes (about 3 months apart) that I have used the calculator and printed, some of them print on 1 page, some on 2 pages, with the soap recipe name the only thing on the 2nd page. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong?
     
  2. Dec 19, 2018 #22

    Amaress

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    I've noticed if you update the recipe before you try to print that it prints out over 2 (or 3 if you have notes) pages instead of 1 (or 2 with notes), with the name being by itself on the first page.

    I also had the problem of water weight being subtracted for additives being added with the water - that needs to be fixed.

    What I think should be added:
    • An option for "No fragrance" for unscented soaps. Would also love to see an option to write what fragrance/multiple fragrances.
    • An area to name the liquid/s used as well.
    • A spot to list out colorants and how much would be great as well so they're not jumbled in the notes section.
    • If the print out is going to be two pages anyway it would be AMAZING to have the option to add a box with space for cut date/bar weights/observations so all that info is just together.
     
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  3. Dec 19, 2018 #23

    SoapmakingFriend

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    sorry , I didn't understand this well ?
     
  4. Dec 19, 2018 #24

    SoapmakingFriend

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    Thanks for reporting this , I have fixed the issue
    I've changed ingredients to sort by size rather that user input , we are going to make this an option soon
    thank you!
     
  5. Dec 19, 2018 #25

    SoapmakingFriend

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    the print report should currently fit to one page , if you have a problem with it please send me an example report
    Thank you!
     
  6. Dec 19, 2018 #26

    SoapmakingFriend

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    Okay , will improve this too , thank you!
     
  7. Dec 19, 2018 #27

    SoapmakingFriend

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    well thank you for reporting .. we had several updates later to make everything work on the best way , at some point we had some unfinished features integrated to the UI , notes saving has been fixed few weeks ago , and image saving /loading was just fixed and become fully functional today!
    #2 - I agree that additives added with water should not be discounted unless the user choose that , we we are going to add a checkbox when adding additives to determine if additive should replace liquid or not .
    Thank you for testing !
     
  8. Dec 19, 2018 #28

    SoapmakingFriend

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    This is is on the top of our list .. Thank you!
     
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  9. Dec 20, 2018 #29

    artemis

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    FYI: there have been new people asking questions in the slack group. I'm not sure if you're not checking it very often, or if you decided not to use it. If you decided not to use it, maybe you should close it so potential users of your calculator aren't frustrated by the lack of response. Just a thought.
     
  10. Dec 20, 2018 #30

    SaltedFig

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    There is no option to add an additive as a percentage of the liquids.
    Additive note2 No option to add to lye water.png

    There is an error in the way that additives are handled. The error arises from the programmed assumption that the total additive is entirely liquid, if it is being added to the liquid.

    In other words, taking the salt examples provided by emi and Dawni
    https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soapmaking-friend-part-4.72651/#post-733424
    https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soapmaking-friend-part-4.72651/#post-733435

    If salt is added to the liquid, the amount of liquid is reduced by weight of the salt. Effectively, as emi experienced, she has entered the additive (salt) to make a brine solution, and the weight of the salt has been removed from the final liquid amount in the recipe.

    I did a test, and was able to replicate this. In my test, not only did it bring the water/liquid amount below the threshold where salt would dissolve, but it also brought it below the threshold that NaOH would dissolve ... this needs immediate rectification on safety grounds.
    Additive note1 Example without salt additive.png Additive note3 Danger warning add safety to liquid additives.png Additives
     
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  11. Dec 21, 2018 #31

    SoapmakingFriend

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    Thank you for your feedback
    we are making a lot of improvements to additives in next few days .. for now we have addressed the liquid discount issue with this option ..
    download (1).png
    download (2).png
    any problems with this approach ?
     
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  12. Dec 21, 2018 #32

    SaltedFig

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    A choice (to turn off or on the additive as a liquid reducer) is good - that's a step in the right direction.

    You still need the safety check to stop the water content dipping below the amount required to dissolve the hydroxide.

    In your example, you have honey. You allow honey to be toggled as a liquid discount (fair enough, it does have some water in it).

    But honey ... is not water.

    [​IMG]

    Use honey as your tester ... if you can get honey right, then you probably have got your programming correct.

    Honey is a good test Additive Ingredient.png
     
  13. Dec 21, 2018 #33

    SaltedFig

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    If you want to hand control the soapmaker ... make the percentage water a field able to be entered for the additive (with a default amount pre-loaded in the water/liquid field - eg. Honey could be pre-set at 17%), and make a safety check at the solubility of the hydroxide (you will need to calculate this, dependent on the math of the two hydroxides you have available to enter).
     
  14. Dec 22, 2018 #34

    SoapmakingFriend

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    This is a great suggestion , is there a reliable source where I can get the water composition of additive to discount liquid and the amount of water required to dissolve salts / powders to increase liquid ?
     
  15. Dec 22, 2018 #35

    SaltedFig

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    I forgot to credit the source of the pie-chart above; the link is here: http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/loveridge/5196.gif

    Percentage water in additive

    I personally don't know of a comprehensive list of the water content of of various substances. It would probably take researching the each new ingredient in your program and manually entering the water content to start with.

    If the soapmaker has the option to use their own water content percentage, then the suggested amount shouldn't be a problem for anyone (unless it was too far off the mark) - see below for more.

    Amount of water required to dissolve salts/ powders
    This is a nice idea, but might be too complex for a calculator to handle (like sand around rocks in a glass beaker, individually you might have one number (solubility of rocks, solubility of sand lol), but the combination isn't a straight addition (solubity of rocks and sand is not equal to the solubility of rocks plus the solubility of sand) ... effectively you could easily end up recommending to add too much water.
    Solubility is also temperature and pressure dependent; a number that works at sea level isn't going to be the same number up in the mountains & a number that works at my room temperature isn't going to work in your back yard today (I'm in summer, you're in winter - table salt doesn't vary terribly much, but a lot of other ingredients do vary much more widely).

    While solubility can be complex to program, in reality it's fairly obvious - if there's solid bits, it isn't dissolved :)

    (Eg. I change the amount of liquid I use when I make salt or brine soap bars, but I do take some liquid out of the total to mix my colours).

    Maybe make this completely manual (the soapmaker chooses how much water/liquid to use with any additive - I sometimes thin my honey with water, for instance) and just do a safety check to ensure there's enough liquid left to dissolve the hydroxides.

    Percentage fat in additive
    I know this a little extra, but if we are having a percentage amount for water, we may as well take into account the fat content of an additive also.

    Coconut milk is a classic example - it contains both water and fats, so affects the water total and the amount of hydroxide required.

    More
    I've got to step out, but I'll look at the additives list and see if I can get some rough figures started (or even better - could you copy the list of additives into a thread and ask for people to update the ones they know?)
    The thread could work similar to how the challenge host list works - copy the previous post and add the extra information ... I'll come back to this in a bit.
     
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  16. Dec 23, 2018 #36

    SoapmakingFriend

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    Thanks for the suggestion , we already have this functionality , we allow users to enter Saponification values for their additives when they add it and we add the amount of hydroxide required for it .
     
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  17. Dec 23, 2018 #37

    SoapmakingFriend

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    well , I think we are going to over-engineer this but I would like the calculator to be very accurate and take everything into consideration , we initially introduced this liquid reduction feature to allow replacing water with vinegar (which has almost 95% water content) or any other liquid .. I prefer doing your suggestion to specify water composition of additives and remove this discount liquid checkbox .. but I'm confused by the safety check you talked about ( I'm a programmer not a soap-maker) , so I would like to understand if the amount of liquid is less than the amount required to dissolve hydroxide if the additive will be added at trace or at any other stage after lye was dissolved .. should the water content of this additive be discounted ?
     
  18. Dec 23, 2018 #38

    SaltedFig

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    Sodium hydroxide needs nearly it's own weight to dissolve (the water can be slightly less, but not by much).

    A rough safety check, for your liquid amount (I won't have time to write details specs before Christmas), would be to limit the water content to no less that the weight of the hydroxide.


    "I would like to understand if the amount of liquid is less than the amount required to dissolve hydroxide if the additive will be added at trace or at any other stage after lye was dissolved .. should the water content of this additive be discounted ?"

    When a liquid is going to be added after the lye is made, then don't include it in the total liquid for safety checking purposes (because the liquid will not be available to make the lye solution).

    The water content of the additive should otherwise be included in the total liquids for lye concentration/lye ratio calculations - it's still going to be included in the soap, so the soapmaker needs to have that information available to them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
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  19. Dec 23, 2018 #39

    SoapmakingFriend

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    This would be very helpful ,
    I will post a list of global additives below and the information we are interested in is
    • water content percentage
    • Saponfication values ( if any )
    • Specific Gravity ( for better accuracy when using volume units )
    • Suggested additive amount
    our list of global additives include
    • Activated Charcoal
    • Aloe Powder
    • Apricot Kernel Seeds
    • Beeswax
    • Blueberry Seeds
    • Buttermilk Powder
    • Citric Acid
    • Clay
    • Cocoa Powder
    • Coconut Milk Powder
    • Coffee Grounds
    • Corn Meal
    • Cranberry Seeds
    • Dried Calendula
    • Dried Lavender
    • Dried Rose Buds
    • Goat Milk Powder
    • Ground Peppermint
    • Ground Rosemary
    • Ground Spearmint
    • Honey
    • Oatmeal
    • Orange Peel Powder
    • Poppy Seeds
    • Raspberry Seeds
    • Salt
    • Silk Fibers
    • Sodium Lactate
    • Sugar
    • Vinegar (Commercial 5% )
    suggestions are welcome if you need to add more global additives
     
  20. Dec 25, 2018 #40

    SoapmakingFriend

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    we released an update today to show charts with results
    charts.jpg
     
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