Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?

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So, yep, not enough water. Glad they fixed that.


Wow, Susie! I just typed the recipe you posted from your old notes (in converted oz. form) into the regular SBM calculator, and sure enough- all I can say is what you said, "Yep, not enough water." I'm glad they fixed it, too!

DeeAnna (and all)- I have no idea what the actual purity of my KOH is. I've been using up an old bottle of it that I bought from Snowdrift Farms some years ago, back when they were still business, and since I don't have a contact # for them, there's no way of being able to check. I'm not concerned about it, though, since all is working well for me with this particular bottle of KOH using the SBM, but on the future bottles that I have on hand from BB, I will check before using.

IrishLass :)
 
It's been a great help for me to learn:

Too dry and hard to work with: water = 2 x KOH or less
Just right: water = 3 x KOH
Too wet to stay emusified or saponify quickly: water = 3 x KOH or more

And the "water" to dilute the KOH can be water only, a mix of water and glycerin, or glycerin only.

Tentatively, I think I've learned recently --
Cold process method will work if you dilute the KOH with all glycerin or a mix of water and glycerin
Hot process method is needed if you dilute the KOH with just water
 
To Irishlass, and anybody else willing to help please.

You're very welcome everyone! I'm glad to be able to contribute. :)

I'd go for it! My other favorite 'keeper' GLS actually contains both shea butter and cocoa butter. Although it dilutes out to a rather "blah" murky/cloudy amber color, it gets transformed into a beautifully opaque, creamy/pearly swan with 2% stearic acid added to it. And I also add an extra 2% superfat to it when the soap is all finished and pearly (mixed with PS80 to emulsify). It's just a tiny bit more involved to make compared to Carrie's formula (the stearic adds an extra step near the end of dilution), but I'm working on perfecting my procedure so that the stearic can be added up front, thereby eliminating the extra step. My conundrum with the timing of the stearic addition stems from my early experiments with trying to perfect the dilution rate for this formula while simultaneously trying to make it creamy/pearly looking. That's what I get for trying to do 2 things at once. lol Right now, the 2% stearic is based on the finished diluted soap weight, but I'd like it to be based on the weight of the paste instead. Heavy sigh! I'll get it figured out soon. :crazy:

Anyway, for what it's worth, here's my recipe:

Coconut Oil 35%
Castor Oil 30%
Cocoa Butter 20%
Olive Oil 10%
Shea Butter 5%
KOH amount based on 3% superfat using Summerbee's Advanced Lye Calculator

I add the same amount of SL to the paste (3%) that I use in the other formula, but my dilution rate for it is much different. I must say that I had to play with it (the dilution rate) quite a bit, but I finally got it to where it comes out just as thick- 1 part paste to .41 (41%) parts water [paste weight X .41 or 41%]. A significant difference from the other formula, as you can see, which might be due to the higher amount of coconut oil (which needs much less water to dilute than other oils, I've found), but the consistency is great- as thick as honey- just the way I like it.

It feels great, too- very sumptuous with lots of lather- and not drying at all in spite of having 35% coconut oil in it. I attribute that to the added 2% superfat and the 2% stearic.


IrishLass :)

Ok, Back to the Start of things again. I have been doing your other LS wonderfully, now its time for me to move on and try your other recipe. Thing is, I re went about reading the whole thread....Again...and I see that you say this ABOVE:

And I also add an extra 2% superfat to it when the soap is all finished and pearly (mixed with PS80 to emulsify). It's just a tiny bit more involved to make compared to Carrie's formula (the stearic adds an extra step near the end of dilution), but I'm working on perfecting my procedure so that the stearic can be added up front, thereby eliminating the extra step.

So, when you say you add that extra 2% superfat to it when the soap is all finished and pearly (mixed with PS80 to emulsify) what exactly do you mean? I know that this usually would mean adding in some extra oil, so is that what you mean to say? at 2% the final LS weight, and not the Paste? and what kind of superfat do you use? I dont mean to be a copy cater, but I am learning from you, and I need something to start whith here that will work. Thanks again IrishLass
 
Ok LS experts ;) What can you tell me is going on here? The cloudy pic is after shaking it up. I am thinking FO separation myself.

image.jpg
 
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Tentatively, I think I've learned recently --
Cold process method will work if you dilute the KOH with all glycerin or a mix of water and glycerin
Hot process method is needed if you dilute the KOH with just water

No, I routinely CP laundry and dish soap with just water(3 x KOH amount) to dissolve the KOH. But I do add half an ounce of grated NaOH soap. It just makes all the difference. I even use the heat transfer method, so no heat added whatsoever.

EDIT-That is not entirely true. I use the heat transfer method in the summer. When the house is around 74-76F. I can't use heat transfer now that the house is 66-68F.
 
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Istephy85- could you please forgive my very, very bad memory and please tell me what recipe you are using? I know it is in this thread somewhere, but my search ability seems to be not working today.
 
Istephy85- could you please forgive my very, very bad memory and please tell me what recipe you are using? I know it is in this thread somewhere, but my search ability seems to be not working today.


Lol no problem :)

2.4 oz Castor
3.7 CO 76
9.9 OO

Glycerin method, 3% SF but remember I was lye heavy so I added an additional 3.5oz OO. I diluted with 1 part paste to .75 parts water. When I added the FO I thought I had the right calculation in my head but was wrong as I ended up being way higher per my post on the last page: "Made a "dummy" mistake today. I calculated how much FO I would need for 9oz of LS. I then got distracted by the hubby for awhile and then went back to my LS. Instead of double checking what I had wrote down I thought I had it in my head. I basically ended up with a little over 5% FO in my 9oz bottle of LS (if my math is right: I did .5oz FO). I didn't realize this though until I decided to test the soap on my face and my face started burning and getting irritated :( I went back to my notes and realized on one page I wrote down how much I was suppose to use and then on the next page I had written down what I did use. I still have a full mason jar of LS. Can I just pour out half of the bottled LS and replace it with half of the unscented to calm it down?"

So with all of that, I split what I had in the bottle and cut it with half unscented LS I had left and it has been sitting for a couple of hours and no separation yet.

ETA: still no separation but it does still burn my face :( hopefully I can burn through (no pun intended) this batch to make a new one to see if I can do better!
 
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"...I routinely CP laundry and dish soap with just water (3 x KOH amount) to dissolve the KOH...."

Point noted, Susie. Thanks for sharing that. When I was doing my water-only batch, I was wondering if CP could have worked if my ingredients were hot enough to start with, but it wasn't going to happen with that particular batch in a kitchen in the mid 60s (deg F).
 
So, when you say you add that extra 2% superfat to it when the soap is all finished and pearly (mixed with PS80 to emulsify) what exactly do you mean? I know that this usually would mean adding in some extra oil, so is that what you mean to say? at 2% the final LS weight, and not the Paste? and what kind of superfat do you use? I dont mean to be a copy cater, but I am learning from you, and I need something to start whith here that will work. Thanks again IrishLass

Hi Chef!

Yes- after I have diluted my paste and made it nice and pearly with stearic acid and PS80 to emulsify, I weigh it, and then I add in a 2% superfat as per the weight of the diluted soap (not the paste) that my scale shows me (along with more PS80 to emulsify the 2% superfat). My superfat oil of choice is Meadowfoam Seed Oil. I love that stuff!


HTH!
IrishLass :)
 
Modified recipe:
2.4 oz Castor
3.7 CO 76
9.9 + 3.5 = 13.4 OO
3.5 oz lye

I didn't know what purity of KOH you are using, so I figured the KOH for the following purity levels: 90% (Soapcalc w 90% checked), 94% (Summerbeemeadow) and 100% (Soapcalc 90% not checked), so you can see how the lye amount changes as the purity changes. The superfat is constant at 3% in all of the examples below.

Here are the numbers for your modified recipe as above:

100% KOH, 3% superfat => 3.8 oz KOH
94% purity, 3% superfat => 4.1 oz KOH
90% purity, 3% superfat => 4.2 oz KOH

I'd say the current version of your LS is fat heavy, regardless of the purity of your KOH. :(

***

About the soap burning your face -- I suppose the problem might possibly be excess lye, somehow, but where is that coming from, given the situation? Another strong possibility is your fragrance is irritating your skin. I've had that happen -- facial skin is more sensitive to stuff like that.

All the calculating in the world is no substitute for real info, so one thing to double check is zap -- if the LS doesn't zap your tongue, I'd lean toward the FO causing the irritation. I'm just guessing here, so please don't take any of this as gospel truth.

***

I checked your original recipe (the version with 9.9 oz OO). Here are the numbers for that one, again for 3% superfat and the various KOH purities:

100% purity, 3% superfat => 3.2 oz KOH
94% purity, 3% superfat => 3.4 oz KOH
90% purity, 3% superfat => 3.5 oz KOH
 
@DeeAnna

You are such a sweetie posting all of that :)

Several hours after remixing what I had bottled there is still no separation (there isn't even separation in the unscented LS that I have in a canning jar) so I am leaning toward it was the excess FO separating.

I am using ED KOH and per their site the purity is 90%. I zap tested it numerous times and even the hubby did as well and neither of us got an instant zap like I had before adding more OO.

With that I am going to take it that it is the FO irritating my face and not use this batch on my face. Once I make the new one I will only do 1% FO. I want to make sure before I start selling this there is no irritation going on.
 
If you are this new to making liquid soap that you are having these issues, perhaps it is too soon to think about selling it.

Well that is why I said I won't be selling it until I have all of the kinks worked out. In the future I would love to add it to my line of products as I do have people asking for it but I have told them not until I am 100% confident that it will be a good product. Until then I will just be making small tester batches and as far as I would go to letting someone try it would be my mom as she has really dry and sensitive skin so she would be a good tester to see how I need to tweek the recipe.
 
@DeeAnna

You are such a sweetie posting all of that :)

Several hours after remixing what I had bottled there is still no separation (there isn't even separation in the unscented LS that I have in a canning jar) so I am leaning toward it was the excess FO separating.

I am using ED KOH and per their site the purity is 90%. I zap tested it numerous times and even the hubby did as well and neither of us got an instant zap like I had before adding more OO.

With that I am going to take it that it is the FO irritating my face and not use this batch on my face. Once I make the new one I will only do 1% FO. I want to make sure before I start selling this there is no irritation going on.

Hi, I am posting a quote also from Deeanna
"All the calculating in the world is no substitute for real info, so one thing to double check is zap -- if the LS doesn't zap your tongue, I'd lean toward the FO causing the irritation. I'm just guessing here, so please don't take any of this as gospel truth. " end quote

So, I brought this up as I see you did not say if you had tried the zap test....again here, to make sure. I know you originally did, and said that you had no zap, but, with your face burning, yes, it COULD be the fragrance oil, but then again it COULD be that when you first tested it, and thought it was not a zap, maybe it really was a zap and you were just to new of a soaper to know the difference. I say this because Honistly, when I saw a picture of your diluted soap I right away thought it looke exactly like my FIRST batch I ever did, where I THOUGHT it was zap free...but I had nothing to go against as I was new to soaping. Your extra cloudy liquid soap looked like my first batch, and even though I THOUGHT my batch was zap friendly, later, when I took a shower, Not only did my skin feel all tingly everywhere, but it burned my hair when I used it as Shampoo, bad enough that an entire HANDFULL of hair broke off into my hands, I mean a CLUMP of hair, like a 1/4 cup full of hair. I rinsed right away and used lots of vinager to make sure it was all nutralized. Anyway, what I am saying, is it sure would not hurt anything at all to try the zap test just one more time, as a process of elimination. Yes, it could be the fragrance oil, but saying that, you would most likely have a rash or redness, but out right burning....thats the part that was a flag for me, not saying you cant burn from FO, but it was the burning part for me that made me THINK Of my first Liquid Soap. So, just saying, it wouldnt hurt to do a zap test quick, again to do a process of illimination, just one more time. Then if its good, its probibly the FO. Yes, if you do the zap test now, it will taste bad, but saying that, you will know.
Ok, just my thought here....I felt it WORTH bringing up...I know my first batch almost got me away from making LS alltogether after loosing that much hair, but now I totally understand what ZAP feels like on my tongue. If somebody where offering me a million dollars, I would of said, YES, MY SOAP IS ZAP FREE....cause I was THAT confidant on it when I tested it, but when I USED it in my hair....oh trouble trouble indeed!!! In other words, I did NOT know what zap felt like, I only thought I did. But now, after having so many LS batches under my belt, I totally know when I am being zaped!! For you, I hope it is the FO and not the Soap!!! But you might need to try the zap test AGAIN just to be sure...ok, thats my two cents....spend it, or leave the pennies on the ground where you found them :smile:
 
She did say it was zap free earlier. I did remember that, I just wanted to double check other ingredients for possible irritants, then could not remember the recipe.(My horrid memory.)

Ipstephy85- glad to hear that. You seemed not to be the "get rich quick making soap" type, so I almost did not say anything. But, I thought I might better because someone else who read that might not be as sensible as you.
 
Cookbookchef --

May I gently ask you to please break your posts into smaller paragraphs, so your thoughts are easier to follow? I am increasingly reluctant to read your posts, so it's likely I won't know if you have asked me a question of late.

I apologize for giving offense by saying this.
 

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