Soaper's Choice Coconut Oil

[bmesnard]

So I've been going a little crazy since I received a new shipment of coconut oil from Soaper's Choice (Columbus Vegetable Oils) in November 2016. I made two batches of soap using this new oil and they were both total failures. Columbus sent me another shipment, and soap made from that batch also failed miserably. Absolutely nothing else has change in my soap making process other than the coconut oil.
I've been using Soaper's Choice for years and have never experienced problems like this. I believe the coconut oil they are now shipping has an SAP that is just way too high.
Anyone else having issues with their Soaper's Choice coconut oil???

 

[Kamahido]

That is odd... I exclusively use Soaper's Choice Coconut Oil as well and have seen no changes. Can you elaborate further on what exactly "failed miserably"?

 

[shunt2011]

I just got 50 lbs in November and it's been fine. I use them for a lot of things and have for years with no issue.

 

[DeeAnna]

It's kinda hard to increase the sap value for coconut oil -- must be some crazy GMO coconuts they're growing nowadays.

Seriously though -- I get the feeling you've already decided it's a problem with the coconut oil, but from what very little info you've shared, I'm mystified why you think that. And I hate to see a fine supplier like Soapers Choice dissed when perhaps this is not their problem.

Why don't you share more about the story and maybe there's a clue that might point toward identifying the culprit? It may be an issue with the coconut oil ... but maybe it isn't. Some things can easily change over time that you might not notice. For example, NaOH can drop in purity by quite a lot and still look fine.

Without more concrete info, we're all flying blind and can't help you much.

 

[houseofwool]

I'm about half way through a 50 pound bucket purchased in November also.

What problems are you having?

 

[doriettefarm]

No problems with my CO from Soapers Choice. Are you sure the issue isn't with your lye or maybe a new FO?

 

[newbie]

I've never had any issues with their CO or any of their oils. It would be unlikely, if there was some sort of mix up in what they sent you, that it would happen twice and coconut oil is pretty distinctive in its look and feel, so easy to distinguish from some of the other major players, like palm, lard, tallow, PKO.

More info, please!

 

[Gerry]

I would check scale accuracy too. Crap happens with our equipment sometimes. CO already has among the highest SAP of oils used for soap making so it would be pretty hard to significantly raise it further through adulteration. I suppose it could be brought out of range enough to make a difference by mixing it half-and-half with fractionated CO, but you'd know the second you opened the pail cover!

I think DeeAnna's explanation is most likely. Maybe your NaOH wasn't sealed completely at some point and it attracted humidity in the air and reacted with CO2.

 

[bmesnard]

Nice to see these posts!
I received a 50lb bucket from Soapers in November that just didn't look right. Soapers eventually told me that the batch was contaminated with Corn Oil. OK - fine. That explains the problems I was having. Too much soft oil and not enough hard oil.
However, I received a replacement batch that looked ok. However, the batches I've made with that shipment also failed in a manner very similar to the batches from the contaminated coconut oil.
Basically I make a loaf of about 1500 grams, and the result is so soft and mushy I can't get it out of the mold without wrecking the loaf. Nothing else has changed with my process, so I know it's the coconut oil. In fact, I've made additional batches with a coconut oil from another supplier with no problems.
I've been making soap for years with coconut oil from Soapers without any problems whatsoever.
Soapers is now analyzing a sample I provided of the latest bucket and, hopefully, I'll get some additional information once they've completed their work.

 

[Gerry]

Nice to see these posts!

Hey, is that sarcasm? :razz:

In all seriousness, I think some of us were replying to this part of your original post:

I believe the coconut oil they are now shipping has an SAP that is just way too high.

Coconut oil contaminated with corn oil would actually lower the SAP value of your oil - not make it higher. It takes much more lye to saponify the same amount of coconut oil as it does corn oil. See it's your fault for throwing us off. Haha!

Hope you hear back from them and solve the problem soon.

 

[bmesnard]

Hey Gerry. No, I was not being sarcastic at all. I wasn't expecting so many good posts to my original query.
Yes - you are spot on. Corn oil would lower the SAP of my oil batch. After I heard from Soapers that corn oil was in the coconut oil, I realized the problem was not SAP but too much soft oil. Sorry for the confusion!
I actually went to the trouble to measure the SAP of the second batch of coconut oil I received. The SSV (sodium) came out to 0.178, which is well within the expected range. A most curious result considering my soap run failed with this oil.
I'm hoping I hear from Soapers this week. I'm also going to give that oil another chance to see if there was something I did to cause the failure. I've made two successful soap runs since that failure with the alternate coconut oil, so I'm still scratching my head.
I'm really glad that no one else is reporting problems with their Soapers oils. They have been a very awesome supplier. I hope this is just a little bump in the road.

 

[RDak]

How in the world does a batch of coconut oil get contaminated with corn oil in the first place!!??

Just bought a 50lb pail from them last week..........hope it is ok. I won't be using it for a while because I still have some from last year to use.

Did you notice it immediately when you opened up the pail?

 

[bmesnard]

RDak: Yes - I noticed it immediately. Coconut oil should look fairly opaque and almost white, with a reasonably dry feel in a 50 degree environment. My bucket looked translucent and yellowish, and was quite greasy to the touch.
Soapers told me they had changed a manufacturing line from corn oil to coconut oil. When they make that change the lines are flushed with the new oil. This oil flush is normally discarded. However, I somehow received a bucket of oil flush.
Shipping a customer a bucket of oil flush should be all but impossible if you have implemented a proper Quality Control program. Hopefully this is just a one in a million goof.

So for anyone following this little thread: Soapers responded with their analysis of my second batch of coconut oil. They said it is within spec - no problems found at all.
So I now must try another run to see if the failure is repeated.

 

[RDak]

RDak: Yes - I noticed it immediately. Coconut oil should look fairly opaque and almost white, with a reasonably dry feel in a 50 degree environment. My bucket looked translucent and yellowish, and was quite greasy to the touch.
Soapers told me they had changed a manufacturing line from corn oil to coconut oil. When they make that change the lines are flushed with the new oil. This oil flush is normally discarded. However, I somehow received a bucket of oil flush.
Shipping a customer a bucket of oil flush should be all but impossible if you have implemented a proper Quality Control program. Hopefully this is just a one in a million goof.

Thanks for the info.

 

[DeeAnna]

Why not try a small batch of 100% coconut oil soap to drill into the issue. Why waste other resources to make a batch of your regular soap, given the situation?

You say yourself that the NaOH sap is 0.178 per your tests, so do a zero or low superfat test batch using the 0.178 value and using your NaOH. If that test batch is okay, then it's probably some other issue besides the CO and the NaOH. If it is not okay, then either (1) your tests and SC tests are both wrong or (2) your NaOH may be at fault.

 

[Steve85569]

Why not try a small batch of 100% coconut oil soap to drill into the issue. Why waste other resources to make a batch of your regular soap, given the situation?

You say yourself that the NaOH sap is 0.178 per your tests, so do a zero or low superfat test batch using the 0.178 value and using your NaOH. If that test batch is okay, then it's probably some other issue besides the CO and the NaOH. If it is not okay, then either (1) your tests and SC tests are both wrong or (2) your NaOH may be at fault.

Like a small batch of laundry soap.

 

[bmesnard]

Second run with the second batch of CO from Soapers was successful. The failed first run was obviously my fault. I must have incorrectly measured one of the ingredients - water maybe - that resulted in a mushy loaf.
Anyways - this thread is complete.
Thanks so much for all of your comments!

 

[Hearthy]

Is this what your coconut oil looked like? I just got some and it looks very odd. It's very yellow and has darker oily looking blobs in it? I've gotten coconut oil from many places before and never seen any like this. I haven't soaped with it yet.

 

[bmesnard]

Bingo! Exactly what mine looked like. Seems consistent with the corn oil contamination event.
The lot number of my bad bucket is 092616-3865.
If your lot number matches, I'll contact Soapers and plead with them to get in touch with every customer who received this contaminated product.
If not, then they have another bad batch they're selling? I hope not!

 

[Hearthy]

Bingo! Exactly what mine looked like. Seems consistent with the corn oil contamination event.
The lot number of my bad bucket is 092616-3865.
If your lot number matches, I'll contact Soapers and plead with them to get in touch with every customer who received this contaminated product.
If not, then they have another bad batch they're selling? I hope not!

Thank you! Mine has a different lot #. I think I'll try and make a small batch of 100% CO soap before contacting them just to be certain.