Soap Separation Mystery

[ClassicCultureSoap]

I have made a number of batches with the same basic recipe (rice bran, coconut, palm, sweet almond and castor) which occasionally give me the same odd problem. The mixture reaches thin trace beautifully and soaps fine, but heats up like crazy in the mold and separates into mild soap on the top and caustic lye solution on the bottom. I usually soap between 120 and 110 degrees, stick blend for a minute or more, watch the trace like a hawk, and am still stumped. The house is usually on the warm side this time of year and I use wooden molds if that provides a clue. Any suggestions?!?

 

[lenarenee]

Welcome to the forum, and sorry you've been having problems.

Wooden molds do retain heat.

Do you use fragrance or essential oils in these overheated batches? Some will heat the soap up like florals, spicy and ocean scents. Milk and sugar can contribute to heat as well.

I would try soaping with oils and lye solution at much cooler temps - a good 20 degrees or more cooler. I've seen people recommend using a fan to blow over the soap, although I've never tried it. And do you have an alternative to wooden molds?

 

[Misschief]

Perhaps you're getting a false trace?

 

[cmzaha]

Doubt it is false trace, which usually occurs if a batter thickens quickly. I agree with Lenarenee it sounds like a fragrance oil or EO overheating. I would certainly suggest soaping a tad cooler

 

[Lin19687]

"stick blend for a minute or more,"

I am guessing it is both False trace and possibly the FO too (plus heat)

 

[ClassicCultureSoap]

Thank you all for your help! My most recent overheat batch did use goat’s milk, frozen and soaped at 83 degrees into 110 degree oils. I use primarily wooden molds, but I have only had this issue with this recipe and a variety of fragrance oils. Maybe something to do with the higher ratio of liquid oils (55%)? Still hot hours later and liquid enough underneath to shift under the top layer. In desperation I popped it into the fridge, hoping that the separation was not too far gone. This morning it is a solid beautiful block. Maybe cooling it quick should be standard with this recipe...

 

[Obsidian]

I doubt false trace, not with those soaping temps.
I would make two unscented batches, one with water and one with milk to see if it is the FO causing the issues.
The liquid oils won't cause overheating, a lot of coconut can contribute but I'm betting it's the FO.
Where do you get your scents from? Are they made for use in lye soaps?

 

[dixiedragon]

I don't think stick blending for "a minute or more" is long enough. I usually blast for 30 seconds, stir with wand, blast for 30 seconds, etc off and on for 5 minutes or so. I am also leaning towards false trace.

 

[Obsidian]

My soap all traces within a couple minutes unless I'm soaping cool.

 

[earlene]

Your actual formula in specific amounts would help for trouble shooting. Which palm are you using? Palm oil? PKO? PKO flakes, hydrogenated? *It matters, as their fatty acid profiles are different and they contribute to trace differently. What is your SF set at? How much of a water discount are you using? (Or lye concentration, which I prefer to use, but they amount to the same thing.) Also, are you sure your scale is working correctly? Have you calibrated it recently? If not, I would suggest you do that to ensure your measurements are accurate.

Check out this link for a list of the fatty acids and how they contribute to trace. I have found that by subbing RBO for some other soft oils has lead to an unexpectedly faster thickening of the soap. It appears that others have found this to be the case also; I suspect it is the amount of palmitic already in the recipe and how much RBO is also in the recipe (RBO is 22% palmitic).

As far as false trace, I just don't know with the given information. It could also be my experience level. I have experienced separating in the mold, and the kind of results you described. I re-batched to save the soap. But I don't recall if I was soaping as warm as you were, nor have I looked back at the formulas used when that happened.

And when you say, 'a variety of fragrance oils' it would really be helpful to know which ones were used in the failing batches. Include the vendor name as well as the actual amount added. That can give a real clue to the problem. Have you looked into each of the FO's used to see if they cause issues? Here is one resource for looking up fragrances. Another source is the actual vendor; if they don't have the information available on their website, then come here and ask for feedback regarding particular vendors.

* Example: PKO flakes, hydrogenated are 90% lauric + myristic + palmitic + stearic, whereas plain PKO is 75%, and Palm Oil is merely 50%. Castor is 90% Ricinoleic, which also leads to accelerated trace. RBO has 22% palmitic, even though it is a soft oil. And of course CO has 79% of the top 4 fatty acids that contribute to acceleration and hardness.