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soap qualities??

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mysoapopera

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I have been fooling around with the soap cal. (i know what your thinking) but anyways... the guide lines or range posted for a good bar of soap, are sometimes hard to keep the oils in that range I am just wondering what happens if the cleansing level is to high? cal. says 14-22 my recipe is at 34? how will this affect the soap? my oils are castor coconut canola oo safflower. everything else seems to be in an ok range? thanks
 

heart of dixie soap co

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i feel your pain...just found soapcalc today. i'm still trying to make it work!

cant help you, but i thought i'd keep you company until someone knowledgable can. :shock:

monet
 

MikeInPdx

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mysoapopera said:
I have been fooling around with the soap cal. (i know what your thinking) but anyways... the guide lines or range posted for a good bar of soap, are sometimes hard to keep the oils in that range I am just wondering what happens if the cleansing level is to high? cal. says 14-22 my recipe is at 34? how will this affect the soap? my oils are castor coconut canola oo safflower. everything else seems to be in an ok range? thanks
Hi there!

I know that it doesn't seem like it right now, but soapcalc will probably become one of your best friends. It's a great place to experiment....just give yourself some time to do it. There's even a soapcalc tutorial on here! :) Just look under recipes and tutorials.

As far as your cleansing goes....basically that number tells you how much oil your formulation is going to remove. 34 is high, so your soap would probably be very bubbly, but drying. Try downing the coconut oil to 20-25% and upping your olive oil. That should give you a soap that cleans well and is still mild.

And keep experimenting! :) It's all fun, especially if you do it in small batches! :)

Hope this helps,
Mike
 

heart of dixie soap co

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thanks mike!

that clears up a whole bunch of questions...i was trying to get close to 100 with each catefory.. it just got me going in circles til i got dizzy!

monet
 

mysoapopera

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thanks for the info. I am trying to get a hard bar, lots of bubbles. the bars i have been making are nice and creamy good bubble but the numbers are really low on the cal. my bigest problem is my bars are 4 weeks old and not really soft but if you push hard on them the bar gives alittle, not rock solid hard like I think I need?? I am under the impression that a softer bar is not a quality bar??
 

IrishLass

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I love SoapCalc and can easily spend a lot of time on there playing around. :)

I agree with MikeInPdx- 34 is mighty high- unless you have really oily, tough skin that can take that high of an oil-stripping level, that is. :lol: My own personal cleansing number preference is pretty much anything 20 and under (the more under, the better). My skin feels like all the moisture has been sucked out of it if my cleansing numbers go over 20.

Like MikeInPdx suggested, I would play around with lowering your coconut and increasing your olive to bring the cleansing down.


IrishLass :)
 

mysoapopera

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what started this quest was I saw an on line shop that sold a high percentage of coconut oil soap... I was picturing a little drink with an umbrella in a coconut shell....maybe I should just have the drink and stick to what I know!!:lol: the soap cal is soooo cool. I was shocked at all the different oils you can use. I was also surprized to find out that most oils are just conditioning. I can see how you could over do that if you were just using the cal. that just gives a %
 

MikeInPdx

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mysoapopera said:
thanks for the info. I am trying to get a hard bar, lots of bubbles. the bars i have been making are nice and creamy good bubble but the numbers are really low on the cal. my bigest problem is my bars are 4 weeks old and not really soft but if you push hard on them the bar gives alittle, not rock solid hard like I think I need?? I am under the impression that a softer bar is not a quality bar??
I don't think a softer bar is necessarily a lower quality bar....I think that's a matter of personal preference. That's the beauty of handcrafted soap...you get to make it the way YOU like it and what agrees with your skin the most. :)

If you want a harder bar, you can also add maybe 1% stearic acid or some beeswax to the mix. That way, you can keep the coconut down to a manageable level.....I'm with IrishLass on the cleansing.....I like it 20 or below....preferably 17 or below (that agrees best with my middle aged skin...LOL).

Actually, you're probably going to laugh at my favorite bar. It's all vegetable shortening with a little sugar for lather, and some salt to harden it. It's prone to DOS but I make it in small batches, and am experimenting with BHT and sodium citrate to lengthen its life. That's hardly a quality bar by most people's definition, but it makes my skin feel so good that I love it.
 

Soapmaker Man

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I use in my favorite recipe, 16% coconut oil and 16% palm kernel oil. I'm at 32%, but with my goat milk, my other conditioning oils, my linoleic and oleic values are right at 32 to 36 at soap calc. and conditioning is at 55, making it a good all over reipe. It has taken a few years to get this recipe perfected. Lots of testing and tweaking involved...and record keeping.
 

cdwinsby

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Remember too that SoapCalcs numbers are just guidelines....take olive oil...SoapCalc will tell you that your bar will be extremely soft but in reality the bar will be very hard if you let it cure long enough.

Coconut oil can be quite harsh to some but there are lots of high coconut oil soaps that have a higher lye discount and are very conditioning.

Experimentation is key to learning how each oil perfoms in a recipe.

That being said....my normal soap recipes usually have a cleansing of 20 or less as well. Conditioning at 50+, hardness of 40+ and bubbly,creamy at 25+.

For salt soaps or castile bars...I pretty much ignore the guidelines given by SoapCalc and rely on the feel of the soap on my skin. :D
 

mysoapopera

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Thanks for all the help!! Im going to invent a soap cal. that when you add your oils it will give advice, like talk back to you!! :lol: I actuall met a lady that owns her own soap co. she took the entire morning to help me out with advise and info. (then I untied her).....well off to soaping with all this good info.
 

IrishLass

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Coconut oil can be quite harsh to some but there are lots of high coconut oil soaps that have a higher lye discount and are very conditioning.
(Emphasis mine)


Yes, what cdwinsby said. There are indeed some tricks of the trade that over-rule the commonly held soaping 'rules', 8) and using a higher superfat (i.e.- lower lye amount) with high coconut oil soaps is one of them.

You can make an awesome, very hard, conditioning soap with exploding bubbles by simply using 70% to 100% coconut oil and a 15% to 20% superfat level. Of course you'll want to make sure the other oils (if any) that you use along with the coconut oil in this kind of soap have long shelf-lives so that it doesn't develop DOS due to the higher superfat, but your picture of an umbrella in a coconut shell is quite attainable and not a pipe dream. :)

I make such a soap quite often. Sometimes I use all coconut oil, and sometimes I lower the coconut amount to 70% and add different oils/fats/butters to make up the difference.

So far, I have had success with these additional oils/fats/butters making up the difference: cocoa butter, palm kernel oil, mango butter, kokum butter, illipe butter, tallow, avocado oil, and babassu oil. And I vary my superfat level anywhere between 15% to 20%. The more additional butters I use, the closer I get to the 15% superfat level. I have these kinds of soaps that are over a year old now and they have absolutely no DOS or rancidity in them.

I think it's time for some experimenting! :)


IrishLass
 

mysoapopera

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ok, I cant stand it. I was going to leave well enough alone, as I mentioned before I now have a supply I can drive to!! sooooo I'll keep ya posted on the coconut soap.
 

cambree

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mysoapopera said:
my bigest problem is my bars are 4 weeks old and not really soft but if you push hard on them the bar gives alittle, not rock solid hard like I think I need?? I am under the impression that a softer bar is not a quality bar??
I have a batch waiting to be cured for 2 more weeks. It isn't soft, but much softer then my other batches. The only thing I noticed is that I used 20% castor oils amongst the regular (coconut & palm). I think next time I will use much less castor oil.

I think some people like soft bars. I have yet to find out :)
 

mysoapopera

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cambree, I have been using 5% castor oil. Somewhere I read that that was a good % for castor based on the qualities of the oil. Im still not sure about the softness factor?? I bought steariac acid and palm kernal flakes to mix in my recipe to see if it firms it up? I would like my bars to be a little firmer then what I have now.
 

dagnukem

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My sister in law has requested a softer bar - so yes, it seems like some do prefer the softer ones.

This topic has been very helpful btw! I hadn't even started playing with the soap calc yet. I made a batch recently with about 45% coconut oil and 10% safflower oil. I think I am going to rebatch with goat milk (not water) to try and soften it up a bit.
 

earthsessencellc

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I recently read about someone making a 100% coconut oil bar, wouldn't that be a very crumbly bar? Not to mention i thought coconut oil was drying to skin....... Is all the stuff i read 'old news' or not true?
 

mysoapopera

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thats a good question! I was going to mention the superfat but there would be none? maybe there is another trade sec. you can add at trace??
 

IrishLass

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I make 70% to 100% coconut oil bars quite often, but the trick is using a superfat of between 15% and 20%. At this level of superfat, the coconut oil is not drying as it would be otherwise. My coconut oil soaps are very bubbly and very conditioning- I mean, the lather is just incredibly rich and luxurious-feeling.

When I make these kinds of soaps, I unmold and cut within 6 hours tops. If I wait too long, the soap is very hard to cut. I haven't had any problems with crumbliness at all so far. My bars are very smooth and hard.

I suppose the edges could crumble or crack if one waits 24 hours to cut, but I've never waited that long. The longest for me was probably 9 hours. Although it was harder for me to cut it at 9 hours than it is at my normal 6 hours, they still were not crumbly.

Also, even though 15% to 20% seems like an awfully huge superfat, it is perfectly okay for this kind of soap. Coconut oil has a long shelf life and the resulting soap holds up very well. I have such soaps that are 15 months old and they are still as fresh as the day I made them. There's no DOS or rancidity in them at all.

HTH! :)

IrishLass
 

Woodi

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I made a 100% coc oil soap with lots of sea salt in it. It's not drying, but I still prefer my olive, pko, castor bars better.
 
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