soap not holding shape still

[Kalpanaganesan]

hi i use 40 pecernt lye concentration
my recipe is
sesame oil-10 percent
palm oil-15%
pomace olive oil-50%
coconut oil 20 percent
castor oil 5 percent.
Earlier my soap was not holding shape and it was gelly like.
with the above recipe i had a comapritively solid soap but as time passed by the same shape holding problem came
I posted and fellow members gave suggestion as to add more hard oils or 5 to 10 % cocoa butter.
i have learnt that using not more than 40 percent palm oil is not advisible
can i revise the recipe to 20 percent palm and 20 percent coconut oil and olive oil to 45 percent to get a hard bar as commercial soap.
the second choice is remodifying the recipe to

sesame oil-10 percent
palm oil-15%
pomace olive oil-40%
cocoa butter 10%
coconut oil 20 percent
castor oil 5 percent.
or
sesame oil-10 percent
palm oil-20 percent%
pomace olive oil-35%
cocoa butter 10%
coconut oil 20 percent
castor oil 5 percent.
kindly give me a solution
i use NAOH as lye
Thanks in advance.

 

[Obsidian]

Is the bar getting soft in the shower? Lye soap absorbs water easy and has to be kept on a well draining soap dish so it doesn't sit in any water.

I would rework the recipe myself. Do you have to include sesame and cocoa butter? Try something simple like this and see how you like it. It could trace quicker from the high palm so o fancy swirls until you know how it behaves.

Palm 50%
Olive 25%
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%

 

[earlene]

I don't quite understand what you mean by holding shape. If it is melting while in use (getting smaller as you use it), that is because 70% of your oils are hydrophilic and attract water to the soap, causing it to melt faster. (The oleic acid in the pomace olive oil + the coconut oil are what are making your soap water-loving.)

So, as Obsidian says, you need to allow the soap to dry between uses and a soap dish that keeps the bar dry by allowing air flow all around and so it doesn't sit in water is important. Also a high humidity environment will contribute to faster melting.

How long did you cure this soap before you started using it? High oleic soaps require a longer cure.

I would start by increasing palm and decreasing Olive Oil (pomace). By doing that, you will have a longer lasting bar of soap, which is also harder and will not draw so much water to itself and will dry out faster between uses.

But still, make sure to get a soap dish or soap tray that allows water to drain off of the bar of soap and to keep it out of water puddles.

 

[Kalpanaganesan]

Is the bar getting soft in the shower? Lye soap absorbs water easy and has to be kept on a well draining soap dish so it doesn't sit in any water.

I would rework the recipe myself. Do you have to include sesame and cocoa butter? Try something simple like this and see how you like it. It could trace quicker from the high palm so o fancy swirls until you know how it behaves.

Palm 50%
Olive 25%
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%

Thanks for your reply and sorry for my late response as i was a bit busy.I in South India.I dont use in shower.Actually i happended to watch a youtube video where they say that the presenter dont recommend hard oils more than 40 percent.That is the reason I chose olive oil greater.Let me try this simple recipe you suggested and find if it works.Cold processed soaps glycerine is not removed this is what i read.Glycerine helps in moisturing the skin i heard.This is different from the store bought soaps in India where they remove gylcerine.Hence i wanted to make a high quality soap .That is the reason where i chose olive oil more and we may also use combination of olive oil and sweet almond oil may be used.sesame is equally soft i read.adding butters will make my soap the one that can be used by upper strata masses.Also 40 percent lye concentration is recommended I read.This is my requirement

I don't quite understand what you mean by holding shape. If it is melting while in use (getting smaller as you use it), that is because 70% of your oils are hydrophilic and attract water to the soap, causing it to melt faster. (The oleic acid in the pomace olive oil + the coconut oil are what are making your soap water-loving.)

So, as Obsidian says, you need to allow the soap to dry between uses and a soap dish that keeps the bar dry by allowing air flow all around and so it doesn't sit in water is important. Also a high humidity environment will contribute to faster melting.

How long did you cure this soap before you started using it? High oleic soaps require a longer cure.

I would start by increasing palm and decreasing Olive Oil (pomace). By doing that, you will have a longer lasting bar of soap, which is also harder and will not draw so much water to itself and will dry out faster between uses.

But still, make sure to get a soap dish or soap tray that allows water to drain off of the bar of soap and to keep it out of water puddles.

Thanks a lot for your response and apologies for replying late.I am from India.I cured the soap for 6 weeks.not holding soap i mean after using for a week the soap started to become jelly like.I mean to say that i was not able to take the whole bar and use it on the skin.I have to take in small pieces using a finger and rub it in both hands and apply to the body.Here the store bought soaps will be hard.I dont expect hardness of that sort.I want to make a soap that would cater to the upper class people who goes for cold processed soaps where too much of soft oils is used.Also one youtuber said that she will not recommend the percentage of hardoils to exceed more than 40 percent.This is why i wanted to go for more pomace olive oil.Also using other soft oils of the sort sweet almond oil and butters makes a reasonably better soap.That is why i asked if i can use butter to make harder.I will work the basic recipe given by Obsidian in say some 2 pieces and if you could give any suggestion on using pomace olive oil with butter to make a reasonable hardness it would be glad.

 

[KimW]

Is your soap able to dry between uses? On what does your soap sit after it is used?

 

[cmzaha]

If palm oil is easy for you to acquire I would certainly try Obsidians suggestion.

My Vegan recipe uses 40% palm with 9-10% Shea Butter, 5 Castor, 15-18% CO (depending on whether it is for men or women), the remainder any liquid oil of preference or combination of liquid oils with a 30% Lye Concentration. This will cure out in 4-6 weeks into a nice long-lasting soap.

 

[earlene]

First, you can use more than 40% hard oils in soap. AND you can use a differnt lye concentration than 40%. Many soapmakers use 50%, 60% or higher of hard oils. Many soapmakers use 33% lye concentration or thereabouts. The choice is up to the soapmaker. If that is the limit you want to follow, fine, but it is not a hard and fast rule by any means.

I suggest you choose from these two lists of soaping oils, which show the hardest oils in descending order. On the left are oils high in Stearic acid. On the left, oils high in Palmitic acid. Those two fatty acids are going to help you obtain a harder and longer lasting bar of soap.

Where to find the above information: SoapCalc - Sortable Oil List

See also: Soapcalc numbers | Soapy Stuff

Although your pomace olive oil will eventually produce a hard bar of soap, it will also wear away quickly in the presence of water because it tends to produce a more hydrophilic soap. The same is true of Coconut oil in soap; it will be hard, but it loves to melt in water.

So my suggestion with what you already have on hand is this:

Or this:

Notice the difference from the the two choices above to your original recipe here:

The Hardness & Longevity are very different.

I would go with a 33% lye concentration (or 2:1 water to lye ratio) as well.

Also look at the 3 formulas in these graphs:


Alternative recipes in the same order as above followed by your original recipe on the right:

You loose some 'conditioning' by increasing longevity, but you have a better balanced soap that will last a lot longer in use and won't turn to mush without trying really hard to make it turn to mush. (If you kept it in a cup of water, it would eventually turn to mush.)

Calculator used for the above examples: Soapmaking Recipe Builder & Lye Calculator