Soap Help

[Lee242]

This is the recipe I used. The soap is still not setting up, it's set up enough to take it out of the mold but still mushy and wet after 5 days. My weights are as close as I could get them using a Digital Scale. I cut off an end of the loaf about 1/2 inch thick 4 days ago and it's still not much change in it.
I had the sugar dissolved in hot water added it to the Half N Half then the lye mixed it well, warmed the oil and added the lye Half N Half to the oil. When it traced I added the oatmeal and the FO.
Did I do something wrong?
Could I rebatch it ?
Or make HP soap out of it?
Bath Soap
All Weight In Ounces
4% Super Fat
44oz Lard
24oz Olive Oil
10oz Sunflower Oil
.60oz Caster Oil
10oz Coconut Oil
3.12oz Jojoba Oil
2oz Shea Butter
Batch liquid 25.05oz Half N Half
Sodium Hydroxide 10.75oz
4tsp Sugar in liquid before lye
4oz Oatmeal Exfoliate
FO 1/2 oz
[FONT=&quot]Batch weight 4lb 14.14oz Done weight 7lb 2.92oz[/FONT]

 

[Susie]

Why are you using 27.5% water as percent of oils?

You really need to leave the water as percent of oils alone until you have much more experience. Also, that is really a large batch for a newbie, lots of wasted oils if you mess up. Try to stick to 16-32 oz batches.

If I were you, I would rebatch with additional water. Re-run that recipe through a calculator using 38% water as % of oils. You may be able to get gel.

 

[kumudini]

Did you actually run the recipe on any lye calculator? The lye amount comes to 12.66 oz for me on soap calc, that's almost 2 oz short. So lot more of unsaponified oils than intended. I would rebatch and add the extra lye.

 

[Susie]

I am guilty of running that without the benefit of coffee this morning. It just occurred to me to check the lye. Thanks for catching that.

OP-you MUST learn to use a lye calculator. If you are going to continue to make soap, it simply is not optional. Here is a good tutorial: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627 to SoapCalc.

Or, you can try using Soapee, a brand new calculator: http://soapee.com/

Either way, you are wasting resources if you are not using a lye calculator.

Either way, this batch needs a rebatch with the proper amount of lye and water added.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

This is the recipe I used. The soap is still not setting up, it's set up enough to take it out of the mold but still mushy and wet after 5 days.

By batch weight, do you mean the oil weight? When I add up the oils, I get about 5 lb 14 oz.

Here the combination of reasons you are having a problem with it:

(1) It's a soft recipe to begin with.

(2) The amount of sodium hydroxide you used seems to correspond to about an 18% lye discount (superfat) -- not even taking the fat in you liquid into account.

(3) The half and half you used in place of water adds additional oil -- the better part of 3 ounces.

(4) In addition to all the excess oil, the jojoba is mostly unsaponifiable, so that's another 3 ounces or so of liquid.

 

[kumudini]

That's right, the total oil amount, the low water/liquid in the recipe caught my eye, but I just went for the most obvious issue there .

 

[Lee242]

I did run it threw a lye calculator But I'll have to check it out further. The weight is done weight.
It sounds like I need to ad Lye and how much?

 

[not_ally]

I think you should run it through a calculator (soapcalc, or our latest favorite here, Soapee, very simple to use) and cut and paste the result. There seems to be a problem w/how you are using the calculator, that could be the place to start.

I don't understand the "half and half" notation. Are you masterbatching lye 50/50 (lye to water), using a split method (lye into half of the liquid up front, half of the liquid added later) or actual actual half and half as part of the liquid? If you are putting in additives like that, be sure to be really clear that you are doing it, and about how you are doing it. That might change the superfat/setting up time in a way which will not show up on the calc. cut-and-paste. I get the sense that you actually *did* try to make it clear, and thank you for doing that, but it still was not to me, sorry Lee. I might have not have had enough coffee either

A calc. problem will put the kibosh on everything, right from the start, so it would be best to get it worked out immediately.

I think your recipe just seems too complicated right now. You should try a simple 3 oil mix w/lye. FO/EO if you are so inclined, if adding those I would not do colors for now, you will still have a nice soap (if the oil/lye mix is right) that smells good. Run it through a good calc, post the results here for thoughts, and go from there.

Soapee: http://soapee.com/calculator

http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp

ETA: sorry, didn't see Susie's post, so this is duplicative, but I think we are in total agreement.

 

[Susie]

Lee- could you possibly screen shot the lye calculator you used with all those numbers in it? There is an issue somewhere, and that really would help us figure out why/how you got those numbers.

 

[Lee242]

No on screen shot I copied it to word pad and deleted it.
That's what it had. I think I used Summer bee Calc.

 

[Susie]

OK, I understand. I want you to go to http://soapee.com/calculator and run your oils again with a 5% superfat, and see what lye amount and water amount you get, please. I will be doing the same thing so we can troubleshoot where the issue may lie.

 

[not_ally]

I *really* don't want you to get discouraged here, I know it seems like you are getting bombarded w/advice that sometimes seems contradictory. I looked at your earlier thread and saw that people recommended adding various oils, and here we are telling you to take them out. The thing is that at the very beginning, you don't know what has gone wrong, and it is hard to even describe it, it was for me.

Using a really simple recipe, cutting and pasting the whole thing (so that you don't have to deal with explaining it) and not putting in additives makes it so much easier to make a good soap, and to figure out what happened if something did go wrong.

I feel like I sound like the know-it-all wicked witch of the soaping West when I tell you to keep things simple when you want to try all these great sounding things. That is *so* not my intent, I just want you to have nice soaps right out of the gate. I really like that you are trying to make a nice soap for your wife (good husband!), want you to do that right away, and be really happy when you unmold and cut. I hate that you have a big batch of soap that you have to rebatch to save. I HATE rebatching with a passion, it is such a pain and does not look as nice.

I ran a v. basic recipe through soap calc and cut and pasted below. I used really basic oils that I know you have from your earlier posts. And you know, Lee, they are the ones I like the best, it is pretty rare that I stray too far from them, I think the basic ones generally make the best soap.

I have super dry skin, so the one I make for myself is a little different, but I think this will make a v. nice bar of soap for most folks. I did it at 24 oz of oils, so it is not wasteful if something goes wrong, and water at 38% of oils, which is a full water ratio, I used the "water to oil" box in soapcalc. (section no. 3 in the calculator) b/c that is the one newbies prefer, later you might want to switch to the lye concentration one. Also fragrance at .7 oz/ppo, which is kind of a middling ratio.

AARG, have tried cutting and pasting, from soapcalc., it is such a PITA!! My sympathies are completely w/you, Lee I will put in in Soapee and try from there

 

[Susie]

I am going to try to paste from Soapee:

1 - Liquid or Solid soap recipe?
Solid Soap - using NaOH (Sodium Hydroxide)
Liquid Soap - using KOH (Potassium Hydroxide)
Hybrid Soap - using both KOH and NaOH
2 - Select recipe units of measure
Percentages Grams Kilograms Pounds Ounces
3 - Amount of water in recipe
% Water as a percent of oils - recommended 33%-38%
% Lye Concentration
: Water : Lye Ratio

% Water Discount
4 - Oil superfat
% superfat of oils - recommended 5%
Superfat after cook
5 - Fragrances
% oil weight - recommended 3%
oz/lb

6 - Select Oils

Abyssinian Oil
Almond Butter
Almond Oil, sweet
Aloe Butter
Andiroba Oil,karaba,crabwood
Apricot Kernal Oil
Argan Oil
Avocado Oil
Avocado butter
Babassu Oil
Baobab Oil
Beeswax
Black Cumin Seed Oil, nigella sativa
Black Current Seed Oil
Borage Oil
Brazil Nut Oil
Broccoli Seed Oil, Brassica Oleracea
Buriti Oil
Camelina Seed Oil
Camellia Oil, Tea Seed
Candelilla Wax
Canola Oil
Canola Oil, high oleic
Carrot Seed Oil, cold pressed
Castor Oil
Cherry Kern1 Oil, p. avium
Cherry Kern2 Oil, p. cerasus
Chicken Fat
Cocoa Butter
Coconut Oil, 76 deg
Coconut Oil, 92 deg
Coconut Oil, fractionated
Coffee Bean Oil, green
Coffee Bean Oil, roasted
Cohune Oil
Corn Oil
Cottonseed Oil
Cranberry Seed Oil
Crisco, new w/palm
Crisco, old
Cupuacu Butter
Duck Fat, flesh and skin
Emu Oil
Evening Primrose Oil
Flax Oil, linseed
Ghee, any bovine
Goose Fat
Grapeseed Oil
Hazelnut Oil
Hemp Oil
Horse Oil
Illipe Butter
Japan Wax
Jatropha Oil, soapnut seed oil
Jojoba Oil (a Liquid Wax Ester)
Karanja Oil
Kokum Butter
Kpangnan Butter
Kukui nut Oil
Lanolin liquid Wax
Lard, Pig Tallow (Manteca)
Laurel Fruit Oil
Lauric Acid
Linseed Oil, flax
Loofa Seed Oil, Luffa cylinderica
Macadamia Nut Butter
Macadamia Nut Oil
Mafura Butter, Trichilia emetica
Mango Seed Butter
Mango Seed Oil
Marula Oil
Meadowfoam Oil
Milk Fat, any bovine
Milk Thistle Oil
Mink Oil
Monoi de Tahiti Oil
Moringa Oil
Mowrah Butter
Murumuru Butter
Mustard Oil, kachi ghani
Myristic Acid
Neatsfoot Oil
Neem Seed Oil
Nutmeg Butter
Oat Oil
Oleic Acid
Olive Oil
Olive Oil pomace
Ostrich Oil
Palm Kernel Oil
Palm Kernel Oil Flakes, hydrogenated
Palm Oil
Palm Stearin
Palmitic Acid
Palmolein
Papaya seed oil, Carica papaya
Passion Fruit Seed Oil
Pataua (Patawa) Oil
Peach Kernel Oil
Peanut Oil
Pecan Oil
Perilla Seed Oil
Pine Tar, lye calc only no FA
Pistachio Oil
Plum Kernel Oil
Pomegranate Seed Oil
Poppy Seed Oil
Pracaxi (Pracachy) Seed Oil - hair conditioner
Pumpkin Seed Oil virgin
Rabbit Fat
Rapeseed Oil, unrefined canola
Raspberry Seed Oil
Red Palm Butter
Rice Bran Oil, refined
Rosehip Oil
Sacha Inchi, Plukenetia volubilis
Safflower Oil
Safflower Oil, high oleic
Sal Butter
Salmon Oil
Saw Palmetto Extract
Saw Palmetto Oil
Sea Buckthorn Oil, seed
Sea Buckthorn Oil, seed and berry
Sesame Oil
Shea Butter
Shea Oil, fractionated
SoapQuick, conventional
SoapQuick, organic
Soybean Oil
Soybean, 27.5% hydrogenated
Soybean, fully hydrogenated (soy wax)
Stearic Acid
Sunflower Oil
Sunflower Oil, high oleic
Tallow Bear
Tallow Beef
Tallow Deer
Tallow Goat
Tallow Sheep
Tamanu Oil, kamani
Tucuma Seed Butter
Ucuuba Butter
Walmart GV Shortening, tallow, palm
Walnut Oil
Watermelon Seed Oil
Wheat Germ Oil
Yangu, cape chestnut
Zapote seed oil, (Aceite de Sapuyul or Mamey)
Recipe Oils
Castor Oil oz
Coconut Oil, 76 deg oz
Jojoba Oil (a Liquid Wax Ester) oz
Lard, Pig Tallow (Manteca) oz
Shea Butter oz
Sunflower Oil oz
Olive Oil oz
93.72 oz
Recipe
Recipe Oils
Oil % Ounces Grams
Castor Oil 1 0.6 17
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 11 10 283.5
Jojoba Oil (a Liquid Wax Ester) 3 3.12 88.5
Lard, Pig Tallow (Manteca) 47 44 1,247.4
Olive Oil 26 24 680.4
Shea Butter 2 2 56.7
Sunflower Oil 11 10 283.5
100 93.72 2,656.9
Recipe Totals
Total Water Weight 35.61 ounces 1,009.6 g
Total NaOH Weight 12.52 ounces 354.8 g
Total Oil Weight 93.72 ounces 2,656.9 g
Fragrance Oil Weight 2.81 ounces 79.7 g
Total Batch Weight 144.66 ounces 4,101.1 g
Superfat 5%
Lye Concentration 26.01%
Water : Lye Ratio 2.845 : 1
Saturated : Unsaturated 35 : 65
Recipe Properties
Property % Recommended
Bubbly 8 14 - 46
Cleansing 8 12 - 22
Condition 58 44 - 69
Hardness 35 29 - 54
Longevity 27 25 - 50
Stable 28 16 - 48
Iodine: 68 41 - 70
Ins: 130 136 - 165
Fatty Acids %
Lauric 5
Linoleic 14
Myristic 2
Oleic 43
Palmitic 19
Ricinoleic 1
Stearic 8

 

[Susie]

EEK! OK, well, maybe we need to talk to the Soapee guy about this...so nice having him here!

Here is the important part:

Total Water Weight 35.61 ounces 1,009.6 g
Total NaOH Weight 12.52 ounces 354.8 g

OK, all I needed to do was save the recipe and copy/paste this:

Oils
Oil % Ounces Grams
Castor Oil 1 0.6 17
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 11 10 283.5
Jojoba Oil (a Liquid Wax Ester) 3 3.12 88.5
Lard, Pig Tallow (Manteca) 47 44 1,247.4
Olive Oil 26 24 680.4
Shea Butter 2 2 56.7
Sunflower Oil 11 10 283.5
100 93.72 2,656.9
Private
Recipe


Total Weights
Total Water Weight 35.61 ounces 1,009.6 g
Total NaOH Weight 12.52 ounces 354.8 g
Total Oil Weight 93.72 ounces 2,656.9 g
Fragrance Oil Weight 2.81 ounces 79.7 g
Total Batch Weight 144.66 ounces 4,101.1 g
Superfat 5%
Lye Concentration 26.01%
Water : Lye Ratio 2.845 : 1
Saturated : Unsaturated 35 : 65
Recipe Properties
Property % Recommended
Bubbly 8 14 - 46
Cleansing 8 12 - 22
Condition 58 44 - 69
Hardness 35 29 - 54
Longevity 27 25 - 50
Stable 28 16 - 48
Iodine: 68 41 - 70
Ins: 130 136 - 165
Fatty Acids %
Lauric 5
Linoleic 14
Myristic 2
Oleic 43
Palmitic 19
Ricinoleic 1
Stearic 8

Not perfect, but much better!

 

[Obsidian]

I ran it through soapcalc and saved it to my evernote which allows me to share really easy. The only thing I see wrong is the water and lye amounts.
http://www.evernote.com/l/ANjOQjgElmBJPYEDAiYHw28E-QNNPvHbv_o/

I would have used soapee but it doesn't play nice with evernote and I find soapcal to be more organized looking

 

[not_ally]

O, how did you do that? I just spent 30 ms on stupid evernote (OK, I know it is really stupid not_ally) trying to take a screen shot, copy and paste, blah blah, nothing worked.

Do you just use the share option and then post a link to that page? Also, how do you save it to evernote in the first place? I have always just cut and pasted from soapcalc to evernote since I could never figure out a way to save from soapcalc (just to either print or cut and paste).

Also, thanks to Lee for making me figure this out. I know I have cut and pasted in the past from soapcalc, at least, but I can't remember how now, and I'm sure I did it in some convoluted, time consuming way. So if someone has an easy way I would be very grateful to hear it.

 

[Susie]

^This!

 

[Obsidian]

Yep, under share there is a copy share URL, thats what I use.

Evernote has a browser extension called evernote web clipper. Its free to instal and use. Once its on your browser, there will be a little evernote elephant icon you click on then you choose how you want to save your page.

what it looks like when you use the clipper

 

[Lee242]

Thanks for all the help.
Win, lose, or draw I'll try to fox it or just throw it.
One thing about it, if you start something new you need to keep your sense of humor and expect some oops.
And there is always a learning curve. I'll keep smiling and trying.
Thanks Lee

 

[not_ally]

Thanks, Obsidian. For some reason I am having trouble installing the web clipper (download and save it but it does not show up on the right hand side of the page like yours does above.) Am going to try some more ....