Soap already drying, why make it more drying?

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precious242

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Hello everyone.
I have done some single oil testing. Sweet almond , coconut, castor, shea butter, mango butter, cocoa butter, apricot kernel oil and olive oil. All of these oils were 0% super-fatted.


During my experiment in trying to find a non-drying soap, I've notice that they all clean very well . The only noticeable difference was the lather and hardness.

Some lathered well while others didn't or was minimal.

My question is, if these oils and butters once interact with the lye turn into soap, what is the purpose of adding more stripping oil high in lauric and myristic acids?

As I have stated I've notice some oils lather really well and could not tell the difference between these single oil soaps that were 0% super-fatted interms of after feel and soaps that I have formulated with 60% olive oil, 20% coconut oil, 20% palm oil superfatted at 7%.

Is there something I am missing here?

Thank you in advance for your time
 
Do you mean drying, as in it leaves your skin dry?

I've read here that for some, 20% coconut oil might be very drying and people have recommended it at 15% for that very reason. I don't have enough experience, however, to be much more use on the subject..

I heard a recipe that is 100% coconut oil, at 20% superfat, but have not tried it personally to offer any opinion.
 
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To describe the drying feel I get, it is more of a squeaky clean that is not smooth when drying right after a wash. It feels like my hands are dragging and gripping as I rub my skin.

My partner and 3 other family members have all reported back with the seem experience.

I've also notice after washing my soaps they leave a powdery film on my skin like commercial soaps.
 
There probably is "something" that you are missing.
Have you looked at the numbers generated by the different fatty acids in each soap?
Although a pure olive oil soap has a cleansing value of 0 at any SF it does still clean. Therefore it will "dry" the skin by removing oils.
I try to blend oils - including coconut - too produce a soap with a low "cleansing" value and a high " conditioning" value. Neither number is really accurate as to what to expect but it does give the best clues available in general.

Some soaps ( the pure olive oil mentioned above) require a LONG cure time to be what they will be at anything other than raw ingredients mixed together. You don't mention the length of cure time for any of the soaps so that could very well be playing a part of how drying each single oil soap seems to be. In general I would let any zero SF cure for at least 2 months. That's just me though. Others have their own methods that work for them.

I don't make but a couple of single oils soaps and both of them need long cure times as well. Salt bars with coconut oil and 20% SF and Castille with a negative SF. Both need lots of cure time to become what they are meant to be.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 
The cure time for my combination formula of 60%olive oil, 20% palm oil, 20% coconut oil have been cured for 5 weeks now.

As for my single oil test they have been curing for 1 year plus, I made them a few months back and store them for record keeping.

The whole reason I did the single oil test was to test the way these fatty acids, behave.
A few I notice with high stearic acid felt really draggy on the skin, trace super fast, by the way they were made at a temperature of about 85 f.

oils high in oleic give me more of a slippery lather but even after rinsing still felt the experience noted (squeaky clean) .

Hence the reason for me to try the combination bar of 3 oils noted and to keep the fatty acid stearic low.

The stearic acid number according to soapcalc is 3, and yet still felt draggy in my 3 oil formulation.

I intentionally did a high palmitic acid formula to see if stearic acid was my culprit, but as stated still felt the same.

Even my 1 year olive oil and sweet almond oil feel the same.

I don't know what it can be at this point

I think for my next experiment I am going to tamper with the negative superfat for my 100% olive soaps. I read that the excess sodium hydroxide reacts with carbon dioxide turning it into sodium carbonate which has a lower ph then sodium hydroxide. So am thinking maybe this may help with a longer cure to make it milder for skin.

I am totally eliminating oils with lauric and myristic acids due to my testing don't see the need for the extra cleansing power.
I believe by using a 0% super-fat I can get some lather without the superfat suppressing it


Back to the drawing board.
 
Do you happen to have hard water and do you use a chelator, such as sodium citrate or EDTA. You may be feeling soap scum left on your skin if your water is hard. This is the same scum that leaves a bathtub ring. Using a chelator will help bind the mineral and wash them down the drain, cutting scum.

I can say I can tell considerable difference in soaps, such as a high OO soap always feels sticky to me. I simply cannot see where a single oil soap will really tell you how a certain oil will work when combined with different fatty acids such as other oils. I have done single oil LS so I could mix them to find the exact feel I liked, but you cannot do that with bar soap. Pure palm oil soap is not going to feel anything close to how it would feel if mixed with avocado oil. So I think you are really going a wrong direction in testing. Have you tried a high Lard soap with some CO, OO, Castor see how it feels? Makes a very nice balanced soap and very mild if you keep the CO 20% or under
 
Yes I do have hard water, I have tried edta but not much difference in terms of skin feel.

In addition I have also made combination bars a few of my recipes :

55% olive oil
20% coconut oil
15% castor oil
5% cocoa Butter
5% palm oil

37% lye concentration
7.5 % superfat


60% olive oil
20% palm oil
20% coconut oil
37% lye concentration
6% superfat

aside from one oil testing these two formulas were the main ones I focus on and give the seem result.
However if I were to choose which recipe the last one felt better but if I were to compare it to a commercial bar there's not a ohhoo ahhh per se difference to me in terms of skin feel, however the lather was really creamy and nice.

But I do believe my water has alot to do with it, but I wanted to see if I was missing anything because I would really like to formulate a soap for hard water type that would not leave that squeaky clean and powdery film on skin.

as for as lard soap goes am not a fan of the pig smell, but I do believe it would be something nice, but the sound lard may not please my family members and friends when ask whats in it.
 
Yes I do have hard water, I have tried edta but not much difference in terms of skin feel.

How much edta did you use....and did you use the right type of edta for soap (tetrasodium instead of disodium)?

For what it's worth, I have very hard water and I use .5% tetrasodium edta as per the total weight of my batch (i.e., not ppo), and although it has not eliminated the scum 100%, it has definitely cut down on it significantly and I am very happy with the results.

I think a good point to mention right here is that certain skin-types just don't do well with lye-based soaps and are much happier using syndets instead. Here is an oldie-but-a-goodie thread that delves into that a little bit:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=26665&highlight=syndet


It's very possible that a syndet bar might be a better alternative for you, and you might want to look into making a lye-based/syndet combo soap, which some here have done. But then again, it might just be a case not having experimented with enough formulas yet to have been able to find "the one" for your individual skin's needs and which will work well in your hard water.

For what its worth, it took me almost 3 years of experimenting and tweaking around with several formulas before I was able to find my 'sweet spot' formulas that work for me and my family. Nowadays, it's second nature for me to be able to look at a formula's fatty acid profile to know whether it'll be a good formula for us and our hard water (and if not, I know what I can to tweak it so that it will be).


IrishLass :)
 
yeah am starting to believe that syndets may be a better option for my water type.
I would love an all natural bar but a functional one that works for my water type and skin.

I will keep trying and see what I can come up with.

I am almost 3 years off and on trying to get a hang of this soap making adventure. Your'e probably one of the small few that have the secret sauce I have not figure out as yet. One day, if not am crossing over to the other side, a combination soap/detergent bar.

We'll see:headbanging:
 
I understand that people may hesitate over a bar of soap that they KNOW has lard in it. I would do the following to get their unbiased opinion: just tell them you are blind testing formulas, and you need to know if this one (palm) or this one (lard) is better. Use the same EO or FO, and the same SF on both of them so no one can smell or tell the difference other than the oil used. Then get your feedback.
 
Do you only notice this draggy, squeaky feeling while drying off or on damp skin? How does you skin feel when it is completely dry?

Handmade soap does feel different on your skin, its often is described as draggy or as a film left behind. Generally, after using only handmade soap for awhile, you wont notice the draggy skin feel.

I never notice it unless I've used coco butter, it always makes a draggy feel. The least draggy is a recipe with high lard, 50% is my go to amount. It makes a nice slick soap that rinses away clean.
 
awesome thank you for patience and help. it is definitely appreciated

The draggy/ squeaky clean feel comes from rinsing the soap off and drying, but once the skin is completely dry, lets say after 1 minute or so it begins to feel soft /normal.

But the draggy /squeaky clean is not pleasant at all. It feels like your hands cannot glide smoothly across your skin, it's rough and also leaves behind a white powdery film on the skin.


I have also notice this same reaction with other non detergent soaps.
 
The powdery film is most likely soap scum but the draggy feel you describe sounds like normal handmade soap. Have you tried using only your soap for a few weeks? See if the feeling lessens with time.

After using my own soap for three years, using store bought soap feels gross too me. Its too slick and feels like I have a film of snot on my skin.
 
Wow!
I think its just the nature of handmade soaps for me personally, due to the fact that I have been pounding at numbers an fatty acids for sometime now and its just not what I was hoping for.

It's a bit depressing, never the less I have gotten some good pointers and will definitely be giving them a try.

this has definitely turn into an expensive journey for me.
another day another dollar
 
The draggy/ squeaky clean feel comes from rinsing the soap off and drying, but once the skin is completely dry, lets say after 1 minute or so it begins to feel soft /normal.

But the draggy /squeaky clean is not pleasant at all. It feels like your hands cannot glide smoothly across your skin, it's rough and also leaves behind a white powdery film on the skin.


I have also notice this same reaction with other non detergent soaps.

I think you are having a problem with your supplies. I suspect your lye is not pure enough and your oils may be adulterated. Where are you getting your supplies from? I would never do 0% superfat without having a COA for the ingredients I'm using or having done extensive testing on my own to make sure 0% is not a negative superfat. The likelihood that you end up with lye heavy soap is very high. If you have pH paper, check the pH of your soap. I suspect it is high.
 
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