Sketchy Farmers Market?

[Corinne]

So I have been planning to be a vendor at an upcoming "summer" farmers market that takes place locally on the second Saturday of every month from June-September.

It is from 10am-2pm and is a relatively small market so I thought it would be a good way to get my feet wet now that I have a sellers permit, EIN, FBN etc...

Information on this thing is scarce though. There is a facebook page so I messaged the owner two weeks ago with no reply. Then I saw her phone # and texted her to ask about requirements and fees. She said there is an application (that she would need to e-mail me) and a $40 vendor fee. Ouch! I'm pretty sure the LARGE market one city over has almost the same fee!

It seems to me that she is making bank while the vendors starve at this tiny market.

Also, there is a "certified" market in this city which is run by the city, and when I called them they didn't seem to know the other lady existed.

I have a feeling that she is keeping a low profile because she's not following regulations, and is only looking to make some extra moolah... I don't know. Does it sound fishy to you or am I just paranoid? Should I give the small market a chance or am I better off heading over to the larger one that is every weekend?

 

[CanaDawn]

Get the application emailed and look it over, and talk to vendors? I'm not sure.
Is she advertising it as an approved Farmer's Market (which here is regulated as a not-for-profit, controls the products eligible to be sold, and offers members insurance, etc, as well as a blanket vendor's licence), or a public market (here would require separate food establishment licences or vendors licences for each vendor, vs the blanket one, and is privately owned (for-profit)

 

[dixiedragon]

$40 doesn't seem that much. My mom had a stall at a small craft show event for a charity and it was $20 for a space, plus 20% of your sales.

 

[samirish]

$40 seems cheap to me but then it again it really is dependent on what is the norm for your area.

my market is $250 for the season...

 

[cmzaha]

Fact #1 she has to follow the rules and get city permits. Fact #2 market managers are notorious for not calling back. I have spent up to a year getting in touch with market managers.
The market you have mentioned here is a Produce Only market and does not accept soap. $35-$60 is quite common here and I will warn you, the markets are very very slow here at the moment. My Friday market is $60 per night and is getting pretty tough to make the fee. Most also require insurance. Good luck to you, markets are very tough here...

 

[Corinne]

I checked out the larger market one city over and they charge the same fee--but I know for a fact that they get at least a couple hundred people walking through unlike this one, which capped at about 40 customers last month.

Thanks for all of the information! I think I will try out the larger one since they seem to be more organized and were able to give me an application on the spot. And since they are the same price, I don't know why anyone would bother selling at the small market?

Also, the large market limits products sold to only handmade goods and produce--while I found out the smaller market allows all sorts of retail vendors! I don't really get it, but I definitely would rather sell at a market full of crafters and farmers than a market full of salesmen and marketers.

 

[cmzaha]

I do one that gets thousands people walking around and the sales suck lately. Sometimes the smaller markets are actually better. If you are talking about Chino do they not have a soapmaker? They used to

 

[Corinne]

EDIT: Clearing this so I don't offend anyone local who might be reading this I don't mean to offend anyone so please don't take it that way--just being honest and straightforward here.

 

[Relle]

I thought you were new to soaping Corinne, still learning and have only done a few batches ? and your going to sell at a market, already :shock:.

 

[Corinne]

Relle, I actually started researching and experimenting last October, but hadn't dealt directly with lye until recently because I was afraid to (silly me!). Now I've been making quite a large amount of soap over the past few weeks... and have gotten so many orders from friends now that I realized I should sell at a market instead of driving all over to make deliveries. I am still sticking to the basics for selling (I don't want to test out failures on people), and I've got a few other products aside from soap (lip balm, lotion bars, body butter, tooth cream, and deoderant in the works) that I've been selling too, so I just finally decided to stop telling myself I'm not cut out for this kind of thing and just go for it.

Plus I have already sunk $500+ into all these supplies, and college doesn't pay for itself

Actually the tipping point was my sister who said my soap worked REALLY well. I love her to death and she's vegetarian and the main reason I'm making all vegan and vegetarian natural products...

Oh! And the market I plan to sell at is at least a month away. So I will NOT be selling two-week-cured soaps, haha.

 

[cmzaha]

Most of us spend a year or so before going to market and the markets here are not going to make you much money. Sorry to sound like a downer but it is the way it is right now. I know you mentioned that you are going to go introduce yourself to the other soapmaker in the market you are interested in, unfortunetly do not expect a warm greeting. Hopefully I am wrong, but competition here is fierce and most of us do not appreciate when the market managers let in more soapmakers. None of the markets are large enough to support multiple soapmakers. I am fortunate that in my main market where I have a large following that keep me going. They just let in 3 more soapmakers and I gripe constantly to them. I also outlast most because I keep a large inventory. One market last week, which is usually good for me, I made zip. It is very discouraging to get up, set-up take down and head to the next market for nothing

 

[Hazel]

I have a feeling that she is keeping a low profile because she's not following regulations, and is only looking to make some extra moolah...

I am asking this politely - how is her desire to earn extra money different from what you're doing?

 

[OliveOil2]

If you weren't using lye until a few weeks ago, then you only have a few weeks experience. It is not responsible to sell your soap, you need to know how your soap will hold up for the long term, and that your recipe is safe. A few weeks isn't even enough time for a full cure.
This seems to be a common problem with soap making as a hobby, look it turned to soap now I can make some money! Yes it isn't an inexpensive hobby, and even more expensive once you are ready to sell and add insurance and other necessary business fees. Do you have insurance in place?

 

[Corinne]

I am asking this politely - how is her desire to earn extra money different from what you're doing?

Sorry if I sounded a little harsh in saying that... I was a little upset once I discovered the farmers market "vendors" she had lined up were all things like Origami Owl and such. I was hoping that they would be primarily crafters because I have a great respect for crafters of all kinds... and my reason for selling is not to earn money so I can pad my wallet, but rather to earn money to make more/better products for people I may sound dumb or naiive for that, but it is the simple truth. My joy is in making things that make other people happy. At the same time, I have been doing all of the legal legwork to get this thing up and running, and it bothered me a bit to think that she might be making a hefty lump of cash off of vendors who are starving at a low-volume market.

If you weren't using lye until a few weeks ago, then you only have a few weeks experience. It is not responsible to sell your soap, you need to know how your soap will hold up for the long term, and that your recipe is safe. A few weeks isn't even enough time for a full cure.
This seems to be a common problem with soap making as a hobby, look it turned to soap now I can make some money! Yes it isn't an inexpensive hobby, and even more expensive once you are ready to sell and add insurance and other necessary business fees. Do you have insurance in place?

My mistake: I have used lye for years, just not in this way. I used to be a chemistry major and dealt with tons of bases, but discovered that I wanted something more people-oriented than a lab job. I don't really want to get all up in arms right now and defend myself... I posted about this kind of thing on another thread, and as I've said already, I will let my works and actions speak for themselves. First of all, chemical reactions are predictable. If you know what you are doing and are very accurate, follow all steps carefully, etc. then the product should be safe. And to be sure, I've tested my batches in numerous ways. Second of all, bottom line is that if my soap is crap then... well, it's crap. People won't buy it, my business will tank, and I'll have learned my lesson. BUT--so far, I love my soap. So does my sister. And my friend. And yes, they are taking a risk on me. No, I don't have everything figured out. But there are a lot of soapers I know of who have soaped for YEARS and still don't have it all figured out. And on the insurance note, I have about every license/permit/fee out there taken care of at this point, and am working on insurance. So yes, I am doing this all by the books and reporting it all to Uncle Sam correctly to protect myself and other people.

 

[CanaDawn]

IS it a farmer's market, or an ordinary market? There's great big differences.

 

[seven]

you were a chemistry major and have used lye for years, yet you were afraid to use it for soaping?

 

[cmzaha]

IS it a farmer's market, or an ordinary market? There's great big differences.

May I ask a stupid question and ask the difference? Here many of our Farmer Markets include crafts, which in So Cal they still fall under craft. Up North not so much. We do have Farmer Markets that are producer only markets no handcrafted anything. Then we have Art Walks that many times include both

 

[CanaDawn]

Like I said earlier:

Is she advertising it as an approved Farmer's Market (which here is regulated as a not-for-profit, controls the products eligible to be sold, and offers members insurance, etc, as well as a blanket vendor's licence), or a public market (here would require separate food establishment licences or vendors licences for each vendor, vs the blanket one, and is privately owned (for-profit)

eta: The number of non-handmade or -vendor-produced items is usually capped in a FM, while other markets might welcome more "second seller" type things.

you were a chemistry major and have used lye for years, yet you were afraid to use it for soaping?

Good point. I am probably somewhat MORE "slap-dash" after years of lab experience handling all sorts of things - not unsafe, just not afraid of things, due to familiarity and handling skills obtained thru work, and from knowing the chemistry and the safety issues from a different angle than "rules", I think.

 

[Hazel]

I was a little upset once I discovered the farmers market "vendors" she had lined up were all things like Origami Owl and such. I was hoping that they would be primarily crafters because I have a great respect for crafters of all kinds... and my reason for selling is not to earn money so I can pad my wallet, but rather to earn money to make more/better products for people I may sound dumb or naiive for that, but it is the simple truth. My joy is in making things that make other people happy. At the same time, I have been doing all of the legal legwork to get this thing up and running, and it bothered me a bit to think that she might be making a hefty lump of cash off of vendors who are starving at a low-volume market.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm quite happy to see jewelry vendors, etc at shows because they attract people. Then hopefully, my products will catch people's eyes as they walk around. At the last show, I was the only soapmaker...heh heh. Unfortunately, it drizzled most of the day so there wasn't a big turnout. However, it would be nice to talk to other soapmakers. I think there will be at least one other soapmaker at the next few shows.

I don’t think this lady would make a “hefty lump of cash” by organizing a market; although hopefully she might a little extra to cover her time and efforts. Generally, the fees help to cover the rent of the area or building plus advertising. A lady I know organized a craft/vendor show and she had to buy supplies to make posters and flyers, create them, print them and distribute them. To be fair, she did ask for help with distributing the flyers. But she put a lot of time into making the flyers and posters. If she made a small profit, then good for her since she should have some recompense for the time spent with renting the hall, promoting the show and gas to distribute posters and flyers.

“Starving” sounds a bit dramatic. Every show is a gamble. Sales may not be all that good but there is still the possibility of a recognition factor. Hand out business cards and there could be people who order off your website or look for you at another show. Finally, if vendors aren’t happy with traffic and earnings, then they just won’t return to a show or market.

It’s all well and good to make the best products you can and only want to make people happy. Perhaps I haven’t met enough crafters but most of them go into selling because they’re proud of the products they’ve created plus want to supplement their income. I’ve only met one woman who said she started selling after she retired because she was bored. The shows got her out of the house, kept her active and she enjoyed meeting people. She was an awesome lady. She made gorgeous, unique purses and really could have asked a lot more than what she had priced them. Of course, I had to buy one, my sister bought one and we chipped together to buy one for our mother. I haven’t read all of your posts but I recall one soon after you joined where you stated something about if sales were good enough, it might help pay for college. So, it sounded like it wasn't an entirely altruistic reason for your decision to start selling.

1. I have used lye for years, just not in this way. I used to be a chemistry major and dealt with tons of bases, ….

2. I will let my works and actions speak for themselves.

3. I've tested my batches in numerous ways.

4. No, I don't have everything figured out. But there are a lot of soapers I know of who have soaped for YEARS and still don't have it all figured out.

5. And on the insurance note, I have about every license/permit/fee out there taken care of at this point, and am working on insurance. So yes, I am doing this all by the books and reporting it all to Uncle Sam correctly to protect myself and other people.

1. Apples and oranges.

2. They do.

3. Numerous ways? Does this mean you know how the soap will turn out over an extended period of time? The scents or colors won’t fade or morph? The soap won’t develop DOS?

4. You know a lot of soapers who’ve years of experience and none of them gave you the same advice I’ve seen other members mention to you?

5. That’s fast work to have all the licenses/permits since it’s been under 3 weeks since you stated you were a “relatively new soaper” and asked advice on what oils to use.


Please don’t take this the wrong way. I’m not saying any of this to be mean. A few weeks of soapmaking and making 7 or 8 batches aren’t enough experience. Your very basic questions demonstrated you hadn’t even researched or really even read anything about soapmaking. You’ve gone from “relatively new” to stating you’ll be selling at a farmer’s market in just 12 days. I think you need to step back and give yourself more time to ensure you have formulated a good soap which won’t become rancid, etc. You don’t know how long a customer may store your soap after purchase. Someone could tuck it away for 6 months or longer. If your soap goes rancid, there will be a very unhappy customer who may tell other people about it. You don’t want to ruin your business before you even really get started.

 

[CanaDawn]

Using lye/bases for years and then using lye isn't "apples and oranges" at all. It IS chemistry, this business of making soap. Now....since that poster then went on to say she was afraid to use lye until recently, I think the doubt is not whether using lye is like using lye (it is) but whether the level of comfort was ever there.