Shampoo bars

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by Appalasia, Jul 16, 2019.

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  1. Jul 16, 2019 #1

    Appalasia

    Appalasia

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    I am seeing a lof shampp bars recipes using lye. Does anyone use lye in their bars for shampoo? Pros vs cons? Also, does everyone like the shampoo bars? I have never tried them but was thinking of making them. I heard that the texture is much different than regular shampoo? Thanx for any replies!!!!
     
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  2. Jul 17, 2019 #2

    Dawni

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    Oooh this topic....

    If you search enough in this forum you'll find that many did try shampooing with lye based shampoo bars and after an extended period learned that lye+hair is a big no no.

    Someone here had to shave her hair off....

    I have an uncle who uses whatever his body soap is on his hair. His advantage is, his hair is very short to begin with and even if he had to shave it he won't mind lol. I think it's us gals with longer hair who will have problems.

    When I did try a lye based shampoo bar my scalp was awesome but my hair wasn't.

    The consensus is, you're better off with a syndet shampoo bar, if you don't want liquid ones.. In my case, hair is lovely, scalp is not liking it.

    I've been testing syndets now for close to two years and still can't get a balance of good scalp and hair. I'm very tempted to attempt making some, if not for the cost.
     
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  3. Jul 17, 2019 #3

    Rahmi

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    Wow, and I've been shampooing with my body bars too :) I'm gonna read up more on his.

    I'm my case so far I haven't had any problems so far. I love how clean my scalp and hair feels after shampooing. The best shampoo bar for me was the 20% sf coconut oil bar. I noticed a difference then.

    But I suppose I'm really low maintenance. When does the problem start to appear? After months? Weeks?
     
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  4. Jul 17, 2019 #4

    Obsidian

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    @Rahmi in my case, it took about two years before I saw severe breakage.
    Some people do just fine with lye soap on hair, most do not.
    It should also work if you have short hair since the hair will be cut away before the damage can build up.
     
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  5. Jul 17, 2019 #5

    Dahila

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    I had a short hair and it took not long time to make my hair straw like . I made my first syndet it was like 5 years ago and I will never go back to commercial shampoos or Liquid shampoo
     
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  6. Jul 17, 2019 #6

    Lankan

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    An Instagram handle, who does some good soap making, recently launched two shampoo bars, which are claimed to be not soaps and sulfate free (SLS,SLES & ALS). But they have not disclosed the surfactant they are using, but claiming to be mild one.
     
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  7. Jul 17, 2019 #7

    Dahila

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    I believe our syndets (people here on forums) are also sulfate free, There is a lot of options to use instead of sls
     
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  8. Jul 18, 2019 #8

    Lankan

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    Every personal care product including baby care products sold here contains one of those three sulfates and form enhancers, that's one of the reason I got interested in soap-making. I'm trying to find a lye sulfate free shampoo bar recipe that I could make and possibly use on my own.
     
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  9. Jul 18, 2019 #9

    Dawni

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    I've read around and most sulfate free bars I've seen have sci and/or slsa..
     
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  10. Jul 18, 2019 #10

    Vaibhav Jain

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    Now a these days the question "whether a product is sulfate free or not" is no more relevant rather the right question is "whether the product is free of synthetic surfactants or not" and if it contain surfactant(s) "whether those are mild" and "what's their names".
     
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  11. Jul 18, 2019 #11

    Liesel Atwood

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    Hi! I've made shampoo bars with lye, and found them to be very gentle. I did use citric acid to bring the PH closer to neutral (about 7.45 or 8), as well as apple cider vinegar to close the hair cuticle. Many people use an apple cider vinegar rinse to close the hair cuticle, making the hair smooth and shiny. I'm just curious....since there would be no lye left over in a shampoo bar (unless something went wrong with the calculations), what is it that is causing the hair damage? I've never tried a syndet bar, so I can't compare what it would feel like. Has anyone tried the ACV rinse after using a "lye based" shampoo bar? Would love to know it that helps the problem. A very interesting thread, to be sure!

    oops, I forgot to mention the "texture" of the shampoo bar, as requested by 'Appalasia". The bars I've made do lather up very well, but it is a different sort of lather. Some commercial shampoos have an abundance of creamy and/or fluffy bubbles. The bars I make have good lather, but more like the bubbles you'd get from a shower gel. It's a little hard to describe. I find it covers my hair well...meaning it lathers all over, not just in a few spots. And it rinses out easily. I don't use the ACV rinse, as I put the ACV in the bar itself. Hope this helps. (ACV rinse is made with a tablespoon of ACV, a cup or more of water and several drops of an essential oil to mask the smell. :) There are other ways to mix it up, but that's a basic ACV recipe.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2019
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  12. Jul 18, 2019 #12

    Dahila

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    With all due respect no one can bring soap to 7 ph and still have soap ;)
     
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  13. Jul 18, 2019 #13

    cmzaha

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    The problem is not the fact that lye no longer remains in the soap, it is the ph of soap itself that is hard on the hair. "Soap" is soap, not shampoo. Some of the cheapest shampoos on the market will be better than using soap on your hair. Remember you cannot fix dead, so when the hair becomes damaged it has to be cut to correct the problem.

    Under doctors' orders, I was to use Tide on a customer's hair, years ago, for her severe psoriasis. While the Tide did help clear her scalp it was not nice to her hair. By choice, she kept her hair very short so the damage would be cut off every 2 weeks.
     
  14. Jul 18, 2019 #14

    Liesel Atwood

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    I just meant that I tried to bring the PH closer to neutral.....the numbers I listed were an example of what neutral is. (to be specific, neutral is 7.35 to 7.45)The PH I actually achieved was about an 8.5, but ph strips aren't always consistently reliable. However, I don't add the citric acid to the lye water, because, as you mentioned, the batch would fail. I also forgot to add that I make these bars using HP, rather than CP. The citric acid was added after the cook. I've been experimenting. ;) They turned out really well.
     
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  15. Jul 18, 2019 #15

    Liesel Atwood

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    Hi!
    Perhaps I have my terminology wrong. How do we define "soap" as compared to "shampoo"? Is it based on the PH levels? The "shampoo" bars I made have a ph of about 8.5. Would that be considered 'soap' or 'shampoo'? I'm a nurse, not a hair dresser so I don't consider myself an expert on hair. From my research, I've learned that our hair is already dead, but it is also a reflection of what we eat and drink, the medications we take and what we put on it. Would it be accurate to say that damaged hair could come from any number of factors? Could it also, then, be repaired by changing those factors? I realize that all shampoos are not equal. I have noticed, though, that since I've been using the shampoo bars for the past two months, my problem hair (multiple medications causing falling hair and loss of curl) is getting thicker, fluffier and shinier. I hope, if I can overcome my health problems, perhaps I'll even get my curls back. ;) I guess what I really want to know is, what defines a shampoo? Thanks for any feedback. I appreciate the opportunity to learn something new. :)
     
  16. Jul 18, 2019 #16

    Dahila

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    Liessel it is not possible to have soap bar at 8.5 ph, How did you check ph? Have you made a solution with water? 1 g of soap 45 g of water, then when dissolved you check Ph with Ph meter, not strips they are usually off a lot. Only LS can have ph from 9 to up . Bar soap does not matter what you use (oils) will be from at least 9.5 to 12.
    The hair is thicker (I had been there too) cause of residue the soap leave on hair :)
    Soap is not shampoo, not matter how you call it, Our hair needs , the best is 4.5 to5.5 ph. I keep my shampoos at 4.5 I uploaded the scale so you get better idea :)
    Neutral is 7 ph
     

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  17. Jul 18, 2019 #17

    Liesel Atwood

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    Hi Dahila! Thanks for your response, and the attached ph scale. I did use ph strips to check...I knew they could be "off" a little, but I didn't realize it could vary that much. I used distilled water to create a lather, and then dipped the strip in it. I can try making a solution, but if the strips are off that much, I probably won't bother. :) It's too bad there are no specific instructions with the package on the proper usage. Just to be clear...LS is liquid soap?
     
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  18. Jul 18, 2019 #18

    cmzaha

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    Shampoo is made with surfactants, not lye soap. Even if you were to get a bar of soap down to 8.5 ph, it would still be too high to use on the hair. Yes, LS is liquid soap. As Dahila mentions above no matter what you call a lye-based Bar it is Soap and soap is not good for hair.
     
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  19. Jul 18, 2019 #19

    Liesel Atwood

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    Sorry to have so many questions, but I feel like I am still missing something. I understand what you're saying about soap and shampoo. What seems to be confusing me is this; what exactly is it about lye soap, or soap in general that is damaging to the hair, if it could be brought to a low enough ph? Is it only a matter of the ph being too high, or are there other factors. I have been under the impression that surfactants are harmful chemicals, while soap contains natural ingredients. It seems strange to me that natural (saponified) oils would be harmful to the hair. I've been a soaper for a long time, but shampoo is relatively new to me. Thanks again, cmzaha and Dahila, and anyone else who wishes to reply.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  20. Jul 18, 2019 #20

    DeeAnna

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    "...what exactly is it about lye soap, or soap in general that is damaging to the hair, if it could be brought to a low enough ph?..."

    "Soap in general" is the same thing as "lye soap". In discussions like this, some of us will say "lye based soap" or "lye soap" to avoid confusion, because many people use the word "soap" as a catch-all term for any kind of cleanser ranging from lye-based soap to not-soap cleansers.

    Problem is that soap made with fats or fatty acids plus an alkali (KOH, NaOH, etc.) simply cannot be brought down to a pH low enough to be good for hair and still remain as soap. Soap decomposes as acids are added. This decomposition happens whether the acids are added up front or added later.

    Alkaline pH causes the cuticle on the hair shaft to open, which makes it easier to damage the hair (split ends!) Due to the raised cuticle, the hair also feels rougher (some people think this means the hair has "more body") and the hair often appears less shiny.

    Just because an ingredient like soap contains "natural" ingredients does not mean it is the best cleanser for every purpose nor does it mean the soap can't cause harm.

    I love to use my home made soap on my skin. But I make a syndet based cleanser for washing my hair -- I learned this lesson the hard way.
     
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