shampoo bars drying out your hair?

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gunner

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How can a shampoo bar that is 8% superfatted dry out my hair? I've tried several different recipes, both body soap and shampoo bars, all very SF'd, made with lots of nice oils, like jojoba, wheatgerm, castor, olive, avacado, etc... I would think, if anything, it would leave my hair oily, but it's dried out and frizzy! Why??
 

carebear

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That's because hair doesn't like the high pH of real soap (yea, some disagree - more power to 'em). A high pH product, like soap is, actually causes the "scales" which make up the cuticle of the hair strands to lift up from the hair shaft resulting in a rough strand - and often a damaged one. Also, if you have hard water, the soap + minerals leave sticky soap scum on your hair. Either one is bad - in combination it's horrid.

In my experience.

You can moderate it somewhat with a diluted vinegar rinse, but frankly for most people it's not enough (plus it's a pain).

The joy of commercial shampoos is that they are detergents, which can have a lower pH if they are properly formulated, which is what smooth, shiny hair needs.

Yes some will tell you they do great with real soap on their hair. They are the exception to the rule. And more power to 'em.
 

dagmar88

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carebear said:
That's because hair doesn't like the high pH of real soap (yea, some disagree - more power to 'em). A high pH product, like soap is, actually causes the "scales" which make up the cuticle of the hair strands to lift up from the hair shaft resulting in a rough strand - and often a damaged one. Also, if you have hard water, the soap + minerals leave sticky soap scum on your hair. Either one is bad - in combination it's horrid.

In my experience.

You can moderate it somewhat with a diluted vinegar rinse, but frankly for most people it's not enough (plus it's a pain).

The joy of commercial shampoos is that they are detergents, which can have a lower pH if they are properly formulated, which is what smooth, shiny hair needs.

Yes some will tell you they do great with real soap on their hair. They are the exception to the rule. And more power to 'em.
:wink: Yup, I have long curly hair and handmade soap isn't doing it any good at all...
 

gunner

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Is there some way to modify the soaps ph to a more hair-friendly recipe? I thought I read a post on here from someone who added citric acid to help with the soap scum residue left in the shower; might that help?
 

carebear

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you can only add tiny amounts of citric acid, as acidifying soap will turn it into sludge. but yes, you can use citric acid. easier, though, is tetrasodium EDTA. both are chelators, binding some of the mineral ions in the water so they cannot form soap scum.

that won't help with the rough hair shaft thing, though.
 

ToniD

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I don't know if you are wanting to use your own products, or if you want have the convience of a bar, but I am getting closer to finding something that works for me. I sorta rebatch my shampoo bars into a paste and add some good stuff like wheat germ oil, protein, honey. Needs preservative as well. I am one month into alpha batch, so we will see how it goes, but so far it seems to be helping.

Still, it does not lower the ph much -- as carebear said, if you lower ph too much your soap will not work. Believe that, I tried :D--So you still need to deal with the rough hair. I tried the vinegar rinse thing and it did not work for me, so I follow shampoo up with a conditioner that is lower in ph. (at least according to my ph strips, I know they are not real accurate, but it seems to be working) I make that like a lotion with protein, honeyquat, aloe and the conditioning ewax--BTMS--I think (not near my recipe) 2% oil is all. Otherwise was to much.

My hair had been getting pretty rough, but this is working nicely so far--my hair is soft and nice, so will see if the products continue to hold up.
 

carebear

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also - if you color your hair, be aware that a higher pH product will cause the color to fade more quickly. an expensive lesson for me, since I have it done at a salon. and a vinegar rinse or conditioner may not help much here, since it's DURING the shampooing that it happens - the high pH of the product causes the scales of the hair shaft to raise up and let the color wash out more easily (think of a pine cone as it matures - your hair in acidic and neutral pH are like an unripe cone with the scales flat and tight, but in high pH the scales are lifted like in a mature or old cone).

An acidic rinse can help smooth out the cuticle, but as for the color -w ell the damage is done.

(again, there are folks who will disagree. I'm happy for them. Not so much for me, though :) )
 

mandolyn

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I've been using my bar soap for over a year now. I don't notice that it's any dryer, but I do use Aubrey's Organic Cream Rinse. It's lusciuosly thick & creamy. Works wonders!
 

djk17

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I have been using my shampoo bars for a while now (several months, don't recall offhand when I made them) and they work for me. But then again my hair is really short, and fine, and I am not emotionally connected to it. YMMV :)
 

BakingNana

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I think the reason I like my shampoo bar for myself is that I have very fine hair. In fact, it doesn't hold color or a perm well. I've had stylists refer to it as "really slick." One remarked once that my hair would actually behave better if it was a little damaged! Must be why my shampoo bar works. I think Carebear's right. If I had coarse and/or curly hair, I'd probably stick to a commercial shampoo.
 

Lindy

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I make shampoo bars that are very popular with my customers as well as me. My hair tends to frizz and I find that using these shampoo bars plus conditioner my hair is super soft and my hairdresser is going to try these out in her salon. I don't share my recipe (it took too long to develop) but I can tell you it is high Castor oil, Jojoba Oil, Olive Oil, plus a couple of additives and absolutely no coconut oil, palm or palm kernal.

I encourage to think outside the box and look at different additives.

Just like shaving soap it's not just regular soap with just added clay (I don't use that in my shampoo). You need to forumlate for what your needs are. Hair needs very low cleansing numbers (I go for 0) with high conditioning numbers.

If you want help formulating PM me and I will be happy to help you with your formulation....
 

star1271

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aren't we all different!

The soap I'm trying out makes my hair so manky and greasy!
I was going to add lots of coconut oil to help dry it out.

My hair got a bit dmamged yearly this year with colour stripping and a perm so I'd been ladelling on the conditioner, but have stopped doing that since switching to soap.

I was also reading about baking soda to wash your hair with.
So I tried that.
umm, yeah. gross!

Also the old 100 brush strokes thing.
That actually helped with the coarseness. A good brush at night and again before I wash it.

AND 1 more thing I was reading about - not washing so much. Hmm, I've tried it a bit. I still wash my fringe and just rinse the rest if it feels clean.
But there's girls out there who only wash once or twice A YEAR.....not too sure about that, I like the feel of nice washed hair!
 

BakingNana

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Try one that's not superfatted. Mine basically aren't (the truth is I have the calculation at 1%). I don't have a greasy feeling at all. Lindy's right. Shampoo bars need to be played around with...the fun part, right? Not gonna share mine either, Lindy. :wink: Last month my stylist said she didn't see any color stripping in my hair at all. Hard to believe, but I'll take it.

Next time, egg yolk. Made a dog shampoo (another post) with it tonight that is SF for doggie skin. Having a devil of a time finding a human guinea pig with dry hair around here.
 

nattynoo

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There's not a bar of soap that doesn't leave my hair greasy & gross.
Depending on how natural u want it to be... perhaps look at sls or slsa ( I know...swear word around here) & make a solid shampoo 'bar' not 'soap' as per say.
I've got a recipe there for 100% coconut oil super fatted at 20% from memory.
I planned to make it over the weekend but then lost faith that it might of ben a complete waste of time.

Good luck with it.
 

kattobrn

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I have super kinky curly hair. I was making my own shampoo with liquid Castile soap, jojoba oil, glycerin, and a few other ingredients I cannot remember off the top of my head. I really like it and I do not even use conditioner. I have not used it in years. I love shampoo bars too and just last week make a batch of my own. Love them. Even my husband loves it. And still I do not need conditioner. Once in a blue moon I put straight coconut oil on dry hair hair, comb it thru, cover for 30 minutes and wash. As for products, I like Garnier Fructis Curl Cream and small bit of castor oil mixed in. It leaves my crazy curls soft and bouncy.
 

Marilyna

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I have been using my shampoo bars for a while now (several months, don't recall offhand when I made them) and they work for me. But then again my hair is really short, and fine, and I am not emotionally connected to it. YMMV :)
Love that! That's me.
 

juliab86

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Been using my CP soaps as shampoo for a few months now. I have very long, thick hair and am way too emotionally attached to it :D So far they have worked fine for me. I need a recipe with some coconut oil since the top of my head gets oily. I find an ACV rinse does really work for me. I also condition the ends of my hair with solid conditioner I bought. My hair is softer and shiner than it has ever been. I have never color treated my hair though, so that may be a benefit to the bars working.
 

Lindy

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I believe that a CP bar can be made to suit almost any hair type but it is in the additives that is going to make all the difference....

ETA: For instance if you have coarse hair with a lot of frizziness you are going to want to add a natural silicone such are horsetail. Look at what does hair the most good and then ask yourself how you can add that to your CP shampoo bar....
 

Trinity

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I have color treated hair and was just getting ready to try my first shampoo bar but now I am not nearly excited as I was in fact not even sure if I am going to even make it. I do get in the pool which does not help my already dry hair but was looking forward to the convenience of a bar soap to take to the pool everyday. I just found a recipe that calls for a few egg whites that sounded interesting and was going to try that one but is there one someone can suggest without giving away classified information :) that would be safe for color treated hair and may help with the chlorine in the pool ..... I just can't resist going under water even thou I know my hair is not happy about it :)
 

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