Quantcast

shampoo bar SCI based correct proportions?

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

Stuart Graham

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
17
Reaction score
3
Location
Peru
Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and I'm planning on making my own shampoo bar. I payed for a local course to learn to make one and on that course we actually made one. The results are not bad, in fact my hair feels good. However, I encountered two problems:

After subsequent tries, the bar looks cracky, I am not sure if those cracks are bad. I tested on water and it seems they don't fall apart, so maybe I'm not mixing well on bain marie. I'm uploading a file. I think I moved the mix too much on the silicone mould, should have left it to rest. Or use a press?

The second problem is, when I wanted to change and do other recipes, I found every single page has different proportions for powders, SCI, sometimes they recommend mixing SCI with ingredients I can't find locally, etc. I have no problems changing butters, escential oils and such with other ingredients of the same category, but the proportions are so varying that I don't know where to start.

I'm sharing to you the 30g recipe I did, maybe you can help me. And a picture of a 30g and 90g (30g x3) of the same recipe.

19.5g SCI (65% of the total weight)
3g distilled water (10%)
3g rosemary oil (10%
2.25g white clay (7.5%)
2.25g ground rosemary (7.5%)
3 drops spearmint essential oil
2 drops rosemary essential oil
 

Attachments

lsg

Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
13,858
Reaction score
5,329
Here is a general formulation that I found in my notes:

50 to 65% powdered surfactants
10 to 26% liquid surfactants
2 to 7% bar hardener like stearic acid, cetyl alcohol, or sodium lactate (liquid)
1 to 3% emulsifiers (usually e-wax, but BTMS would double duty here)
2 to 7% conditioning agent like Incroquat CR or BTMS 2 to 3% butters – shea, mango, cocoa
1 to 2% hydrolyzed proteins
1 to 4% silicones - dimethicone at 1 to 2%- cyclomethicone at 1 to 2%
.5 to 2% panthenol
1 to 2% fragrance or essential oils
 

Stuart Graham

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
17
Reaction score
3
Location
Peru
Thanks for your help Isg!
This is very helpful, the ingredients can be very flexible.
 

Cellador

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Messages
1,000
Reaction score
754
Location
Fort Mill, South Carolina
I am thinking maybe the clay caused the cracking? I have seen small percentages of clay used in shampoo bars but never as high as 7%. As LSG mentioned, I think it needs another hard "binder" like an ewax, butter, or thickener.
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
12,919
Reaction score
17,998
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
That's a lot of clay -- 7.5%! I question whether I'd want any clay in my shampoo bar, but if I did, I'd use considerably less. If you're following someone else's general recipe, I'm wondering if they added that much as a filler to reduce cost? Not sure.

My guess is the "cracking" you're seeing may come from not getting the SCI completely melted (I'm seeing white specks in the bars), all ingredients are not completely mixed, and/or the mixture was too cool when the bars are molded. Also clay can absorb a lot of water, and there needs sufficient moisture to get the SCI fully melted and incorporated. The clay may be making the mixture too dry.

Another thing about your formula -- If you look at Isg's formula, there's no plain water included. The liquid surfactants are there for two reasons -- one is a source of water and the other is to make the shampoo milder. Two or more syndets of different types (anionic, cationic, amphoteric, non-ionic) are a good idea to build in mildness.
 

Kcryss

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
663
Reaction score
407
Location
Colorado
SCI is actually only recommended up to 50% based on testing as a possible irritant. I make an SCI bar as well and it has worked very well.

Here's a pic of a comparison test I did with grated soap that I added herbs etc. and one of my first SCI bars:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...syndet-shampoo-bar-testing.78220/#post-812851

Here's the original post with the SCI recipe. I have tweaked it a bit here and there with the herbs used for the distilled water infusion. Horsetail, flax, marshmallow, and rosemary are must haves imho. This one has been a hit with my girls.

upload_2020-3-9_9-12-18.png
 

amd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
3,621
Reaction score
4,947
Location
South Dakota
I have seen small percentages of clay used in shampoo bars but never as high as 7%.
That's a lot of clay -- 7.5%! I question whether I'd want any clay in my shampoo bar, but if I did, I'd use considerably less. If you're following someone else's general recipe, I'm wondering if they added that much as a filler to reduce cost? Not sure.
Humblebee and Me did a clay bar with 12% https://www.humblebeeandme.com/chocolate-rhassoul-shampoo-bars/ that I have made as well and it is one of my favorite shampoo bars. (Second only to the one the Cmzaha sent me).

I think the cracky look in the bars is because it was molded after the batch had cooled too much.

This is very helpful, the ingredients can be very flexible.
I think flexible to a point and then you need to consider pH. I haven't tackled my own formulations yet and only tweaking other people's recipes, so I'm not sure how much impact there is to pH with significant changes in percentages.

I have a shampoo bar now (not Carolyn's but a recipe I bought from an Etsy shop) that is stripping blonde colored hair. I had one customer come back and tell me about it, so I reached out to all the people I knew who had bought that bar, and so far it's been very unanimously blonde hair is getting the color stripped out. Dark colored hair doesn't seem to be bothered. So I will be starting to play with all the ingredients myself and figuring out the pH thing along the way.
 

Kcryss

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
663
Reaction score
407
Location
Colorado
The ph on the one I posted tested out at 6.5 with a freshly calibrated meter.
 

Stuart Graham

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
17
Reaction score
3
Location
Peru
Hi I want to thank you all for your information. I did a final test on another recipe from the same source, but without clay, just to see how clay impacts on the final product:

19.5g SCI (65% of the total weight)
3g distilled water (10%) (I pust 4g, will wait to dry more)
1.5g cocoa butter (5%)
1.5g shea butter (5%))
2.25g ground coconut (7.5%)
2.25g ground oat (7.5%)
3 drops spearmint essential oil
2 drops lavender essential oil (It was supposed to be Ylang Ylang but I forgot to buy it)

The result is way better, but stil a couple of cracks are present. I see on this kind of recipes they can happen so I am not that worried.
Oh, I changed the beaker, like the one I learned I used on the course, for a steel bowl with a wider space to mix, as the beaker was too tight and I think the mix wasn't always in touch with the hotter surface. The SCI was also getting stuck on the corners of the base, by the way.
So, thanks for your information, I'm going to reduce SCI to 50% but I'm curious on what surfactant can I replace it, or maybe just a butter.

Still considering a press or more practice, or both :D
 

Attachments

Stuart Graham

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
17
Reaction score
3
Location
Peru
Thanks Amd and Kcryss, pH is important, I'll need to play safe by now with known recipes until I gain more experience.
 

Kcryss

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
663
Reaction score
407
Location
Colorado
Foaming silk and foaming apple are both good mild surfactants as well as the 3 glycosides: decyl, coco, and laural . I have a very crunchy daughter who won't touch it if I use anything higher then a 1 on the EWG database. She does allow me my preservatives though. I insist on that part.

Edit: That should have been glucosides: decyl glucoside, coco glucoside, and lauryl glucoside
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Top