Shampoo bar questions?

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Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.
Cold process is soap. You're using soap as shampoo. Soap has a minimum pH of around 9-10.
Shampoo bars using SCI are actually true 'shampoo bars' and the goal is to use surfactants and other ingredients that are better for the hair and yield a lower pH (circa 4 - 6 depending on your recipe)
 
Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people. One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes. Her hair was like straw and broke easily. She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse. She was going to get her hair shaved off. 3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger. I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars. The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars. I do not use any signet in my bars.
 
Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people. One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes. Her hair was like straw and broke easily. She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse. She was going to get her hair shaved off. 3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger. I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars. The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars. I do not use any signet in my bars.
Yes my friend uses soap-as-shampoo also and she really rates it. The maker claims they are 'pH balanced' which sounds great to your average punter, but any soap maker knows that soap can't be any lower than about 9 before it ceases being soap. That said, they obviously work fine for her. I've tried soap on my hair and it's just awful - I have thick, coarse hair and it just made it thicker and coarser.
 
Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people. One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes. Her hair was like straw and broke easily. She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse. She was going to get her hair shaved off. 3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger. I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars. The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars. I do not use any signet in my bars.
To be honest, I think she'd notice an even bigger difference if she started using a syndet bar. Usually the damage is permanent though and you'll only notice a real difference in the newly grown hair that hasn't been damaged yet.

Using soap on hair, as I already pointed out, is doing the same kind of damage as hair dye. The way hair dye works is by using alkaline substances to force the cuticle open so the dye can get under it, and then washing it with acid to force it closed again. If your co-worker is using an acid rinse (a lot of people use apple cider vinegar) after washing with soap, then that would close the cuticle and her hair would seem smoother.

The whole point of using a syndet bar is to not force the cuticle open and closed every time you wash. That constant opening and closing leads to long-term damage (as your co-worker discovered by repeatedly dying her hair). Some people's hair is remarkably tolerant to abuse, and those people can use soap without the damage being so obvious, but even they could have even better hair if they used synthetic detergents. Just because someone's hair can take the abuse, doesn't mean they should abuse their hair.
 
Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.
Night and day between the two. CP soap is soap not shampoo in my personal opinion. I tried it years ago and it totally ruined my hair. Went from shoulder length to just a bit longer than a pixie. I don’t recommend it
 
Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people. One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes. Her hair was like straw and broke easily. She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse. She was going to get her hair shaved off. 3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger. I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars. The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars. I do not use any signet in my bars.
Do you mind sharing your recipe?
 
I will need to dig up my notebook. I need to make more. My DD has an allergic reaction to Lauryl Sulfate, makes her rash out to bleeding. Mt bars don't do that, and her hair is thick and soft.
How did you narrow down her reaction to that specific ingredient? Did her dermatologist do a patch test?

ETA: Just so you know, I've never even seen a syndet bar recipe that had Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in it. If you've verified that's what she's allergic to, you don't need to fear syndet bars.
 
How did you narrow down her reaction to that specific ingredient? Did her dermatologist do a patch test?

ETA: Just so you know, I've never even seen a syndet bar recipe that had Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in it. If you've verified that's what she's allergic to, you don't need to fear syndet bars.

Yes, her Dermatologist found out what was going on. She is allergic to tree pollens in the maple genis, latex, and lauryl Sulfate. The LS caused a burn as big as an orange on her back. It took out the 4 surrounding scratches. The reaction was placed under control in 2 min from them doing the scratch. Her doctor said she has never seen this kind of immediate reaction. They did a blood test first, them went to things in shampoo, this was not a standard test ingredient. Poor kid had a big gauze bandage on her back for 3 weeks. Not much scaring, thank heaven.
 
Yes, her Dermatologist found out what was going on. She is allergic to tree pollens in the maple genis, latex, and lauryl Sulfate. The LS caused a burn as big as an orange on her back. It took out the 4 surrounding scratches. The reaction was placed under control in 2 min from them doing the scratch. Her doctor said she has never seen this kind of immediate reaction. They did a blood test first, them went to things in shampoo, this was not a standard test ingredient. Poor kid had a big gauze bandage on her back for 3 weeks. Not much scaring, thank heaven.
Five and a half months ago, I had a patch test done and there is still an irritated red square on my back from the gold patch. Fortunately, I've never seen gold in shampoo. On the same patch test though was formaldehyde releaser type preservatives, and it turns out I am allergic to those. Formaldehyde releasers are common in paraben-free skin care products so I have to be careful. That's one reason I like making my own skin care products.

I do still think that you don't have to resort to using soap on your daughter's hair. Syndet bars are extremely versatile and can be formulated with allergies in mind. Did the dermatologist give you a list of other related ingredients your daughter would be allergic to based on the patch test results?
 
Five and a half months ago, I had a patch test done and there is still an irritated red square on my back from the gold patch. Fortunately, I've never seen gold in shampoo. On the same patch test though was formaldehyde releaser type preservatives, and it turns out I am allergic to those. Formaldehyde releasers are common in paraben-free skin care products so I have to be careful. That's one reason I like making my own skin care products.

I do still think that you don't have to resort to using soap on your daughter's hair. Syndet bars are extremely versatile and can be formulated with allergies in mind. Did the dermatologist give you a list of other related ingredients your daughter would be allergic to based on the patch test results?


My daughter is in her 30's now, and we formulate most of her skin care products. Yes, her dermatologist gave me a list of very long names for the related ingredients. I found a lot of them in the soaps and shampoos we used. I make my own laundry soap mix, because a bunch of those have the same junk in them. We have had to un-junk our lives, because my Granddaughter has the same sensitivities as her Aunt. 2 out of the 5 in my family are allergic. I am developing a few allergies myself, but to medical ingredients!
 
Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.
Soap is not good for the hair. The pH from soap is around 7.0, however, the pH of hair is around 4.5 to 5.5. This is why people use an apple cider vinegar rinse afterwards to help lower the pH of the soap. Using soap as shampoo can ultimately damage the hair down the road.
 
I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.
I make a syndet bar with a small amount of SCI powder but also include Ayurvedic herbs, some of which are natural surfactants like Shikaki and AMLA as well as Aritha (soapnuts)
 
Soap is not good for the hair. The pH from soap is around 7.0, however, the pH of hair is around 4.5 to 5.5. This is why people use an apple cider vinegar rinse afterwards to help lower the pH of the soap. Using soap as shampoo can ultimately damage the hair down the road.


OK, so when? 4 years later my hair is much thicker and quiet nice. No more excess dandruff and the greasiness is gone.
 
Lush still use it in their shampoo bars.
The more I hear about Lush, the more I am convinced their formulators have no idea what they're doing.
I was going to start ranting, but I think I'll just leave it at that, lol.

My daughter is in her 30's now, and we formulate most of her skin care products. Yes, her dermatologist gave me a list of very long names for the related ingredients. I found a lot of them in the soaps and shampoos we used. I make my own laundry soap mix, because a bunch of those have the same junk in them. We have had to un-junk our lives, because my Granddaughter has the same sensitivities as her Aunt. 2 out of the 5 in my family are allergic. I am developing a few allergies myself, but to medical ingredients!
Did the dermatologist say that she just develops allergies easily? Some people do. If that's the case, then I would have a chat with her dermatologist and see if there are any surfactants she isn't likely to develop an allergy to, or strategies for preventing allergies developing (like rotating products). After that, if you want, maybe I could help you come up with a product formula she can use as a shampoo.
If the doctor recommends she not use any synthetic surfactants at all, then I guess she's stuck having to use soap on her hair. Soap is great as a body wash though so she will want to keep using it for that even if we figure out a shampoo for her.

And I wouldn't call ingredients "junk" just because a family member is allergic. Some people's immune systems malfunction sometimes, that's all. Usually, there is nothing wrong with the ingredient itself. When I had my environmental allergy testing done, I tested either severely or moderately allergic to literally everything on the test, with the sole exception of horses. It was a pretty comprehensive test, too, and included every local pollen, mold, animals, etc.. So I know about allergies. I totally feel for your family and I'm sorry you have to go through that.

Soap is not good for the hair. The pH from soap is around 7.0, however, the pH of hair is around 4.5 to 5.5. This is why people use an apple cider vinegar rinse afterwards to help lower the pH of the soap. Using soap as shampoo can ultimately damage the hair down the road.
The minimum pH of soap is 9. If you get much lower than that, it stops being soap. Paper pH test strips don't work for soap and will always show a lower pH than what it actually is.

OK, so when? 4 years later my hair is much thicker and quiet nice. No more excess dandruff and the greasiness is gone.
Those are effects on your scalp, not the hair shaft itself. What we're discussing is damage to the hair shaft. Your scalp is skin, and almost no one disputes that soap is good for skin. And like I said in a previous post, if you need a shampoo that removes very little of the natural oil, you can do that with a syndet bar. You can probably make it remove even less oil than soap does. Removing too much oil when you wash is what triggers your scalp to start producing more oil than what's really needed, making your hair greasy and wreaking all kinds of havoc.
 
Okay. Just sharing what I'm sharing. If it is working for you great. I sell my products and would not want to take a chance on damaging anyone's hair based on pH.
This is important to know, especially if you sell. People have been sued for selling soap as shampoo, after the product was found to be damaging to people's hair.
 
>Did the dermatologist say that she just develops allergies easily? Some people do. If that's the case, then I would have a chat with her dermatologist and see if there are any surfactants she isn't likely to develop an allergy to, or strategies for preventing allergies developing (like rotating products). After that, if you want, maybe I could help you come up with a product formula she can use as a shampoo.
If the doctor recommends she not use any synthetic surfactants at all, then I guess she's stuck having to use soap on her hair. Soap is great as a body wash though so she will want to keep using it for that even if we figure out a shampoo for her.<

Yes she is allergic to the surfactants in the shampoos. She rotates shampoos w/o LS in them, but they leave much to be desired. They also are quite expensive and you can't get a trial size to test.


>I totally feel for your family and I'm sorry you have to go through that.<


Thank you. I am the one developing allergies all over the place, so far. (knock on wood) I can't eat walnuts, can't use anything that contains steroids, have a latex and medical glue sensitivity and I can't take anything with valium in it.



>Those are effects on your scalp, not the hair shaft itself. What we're discussing is damage to the hair shaft. Your scalp is skin, and almost no one disputes that soap is good for skin. And like I said in a previous post, if you need a shampoo that removes very little of the natural oil, you can do that with a syndet bar. You can probably make it remove even less oil than soap does. Removing too much oil when you wash is what triggers your scalp to start producing more oil than what's really needed, making your hair greasy and wreaking all kinds of havoc.<


I can sit on my hair, it is that long. I got it trimmed back when I started with the shampoo bar. My hair is not showing any damage to it except for slight split ends. I know I superfatted the soap, and I use an ACV rinse. This could be the discerning factor.
 
Yes she is allergic to the surfactants in the shampoos. She rotates shampoos w/o LS in them, but they leave much to be desired. They also are quite expensive and you can't get a trial size to test.
Is this something she gets from the doctor? Would you mind posting either a link to it online somewhere, or a picture of the ingredient list on the bottle? I'd like to see if it would be possible for you to make it at home and make it better/cheaper than wherever you're getting it now. I hate it when people make an inferior product and then charge an arm and a leg for it because they know people don't have a choice.

I can sit on my hair, it is that long. I got it trimmed back when I started with the shampoo bar. My hair is not showing any damage to it except for slight split ends. I know I superfatted the soap, and I use an ACV rinse. This could be the discerning factor.
I wish my hair grew that long. It grows to my waist and that's it. I lost the gene pool lottery and got my grandmother's genes. She was wearing a wig already in her early 30's. Very thin, very fine, and only grows so long. I have to take care of what hair I have because I don't have much of it.

I have never had split ends that I recall. If I ever did, it was probably back in high school when I had a perm. I actually had thick hair back then.

If you're going to insist on using soap on your hair, at least you're using the ACV rinse. I still don't like the idea of having to fix what soap does to your hair every time you wash it, but I don't think I'm going to change your mind.
 
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