Separation or glycerin river or something else

[Satinfox]

Hello all, I have a few pictures of soap that was poured yesterday, unmolded today and cut. The bars came out with oil oozing out.

I used :
Castor oil 15%
Tallow beef 70%
Olive oil 15%

2 tablespoons goat milk powder
2 tablespoons powder sugar
1/4 teaspoon titanium dioxide
1/8 teaspoon of 3 mica colors

20% superfat

Water at 38%

Poured and covered with cardboard and placed in the oven to keep air off of it, with the hope of preventing soda ash.




Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[lsg]

IMO, 15% Castor oil is the culprit. The most I use is 8% and most of the time I just use 5%. Too much Castor oil can give you sticky soap.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/castor-oil.22904/

 

[Obsidian]

I disagree, at least with this recipe. I've used up to 27% castor with high tallow and it isn't soft.
This looks like over heating to me. I also have to wonder why the sf is so high? Normally a 20% sf is for a soap very high in coconut.

Adding milk and sugar is just asking for a hot soap, I would do one or the other

 

[cmzaha]

I have to agree with Obsidian on this one. I also have to question the high Superfat.

 

[DeeAnna]

My guesses are overheating and too much water in proportion to the alkali.

Your lye concentration is around 26.5% according to my quick calculations, and that's pretty low. Get away from "water as % of fats" and start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio instead. I'd have used 33% lye concentration (2:1 water:lye ratio) for this type of recipe.

And I also seriously question your choice of superfat. For a high-tallow recipe like this, I'd use 2% superfat. Even 5% would be fine. Not 20%.

 

[morcansdesigns]

My guesses are overheating and too much water in proportion to the alkali.

Your lye concentration is around 26.5% according to my quick calculations, and that's pretty low. Get away from "water as % of fats" and start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio instead. I'd have used 33% lye concentration (2:1 water:lye ratio) for this type of recipe.

And I also seriously question your choice of superfat. For a high-tallow recipe like this, I'd use 2% superfat. Even 5% would be fine. Not 20%.

Thank you for your replies.

My mom is sensative and has stated that she gets a stinging feeling on her hands and dry fingertips. She believes that it caused be the lye so she superfats her recipes higher than 10%.

This happened the first time using titanium dioxide and this time too.

 

[Lankan]

I had a similar experience when I added additional glycerine to the mix. in this case the super fat is unusually high. That may the one causing the issue.

 

[Satinfox]

Thanks for your replies,
If you don't super fat the soap how do you keep the soap from stinging and drying your skin? Have had success with SF as high as 27%. I think it is the titanium dioxide that caused it. It happened on the first batch I used TD with, and then I had to re-batch it. This time I used less and it is oozing.

 

[cmzaha]

You learn to make soap with a nice balance of fats. For me, it is using low CO, no OO, with palm, coco butter, shea, ( butters I keep 10%), canola ho, sunflower ho, tallow/lard combo, avocado oil, 5% castor oil co/pko. Just a sample of the oils I use to make a nice balanced bar with a 2-3% superfat. My plumbing will not accept high superfat soaps and I hate washing with oily soap.

 

[Dawni]

Thanks for your replies,
If you don't super fat the soap how do you keep the soap from stinging and drying your skin? Have had success with SF as high as 27%. I think it is the titanium dioxide that caused it. It happened on the first batch I used TD with, and then I had to re-batch it. This time I used less and it is oozing.

I use between 1-4% SF for my regular soaps... Higher only with brine and salt bars. My personal rule is, the higher the cleansing factor, the higher the superfat. Since I almost never go above 18% coconut oil (again, except brine and salt bars), I can get away with lower superfat..

Nice color combo, btw

 

[penelopejane]

I use <4% SF and max 5% castor oil.
Did you preheat or turn the oven on when you put your soap batter in it?

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with the others. Superfat too high, too much water used as well as some overheating. How old are the soap that are causing the stinging and dryness? If they are young that’s to be expected. Did you zap test them?

 

[DeeAnna]

You don't give the actual weights of the fats in your recipe, so I can't check your recipe to see if you're calculating it correctly. But I can definitely say the soap shouldn't sting your skin unless you have unusually sensitive skin or there is excess alkali in the soap.

If you have skin that sensitive, you simply may not be able to use lye-based soap. If you're calculation method is off, you need to correct that.

1/4 tsp titanium dioxide isn't an excessive amount if used in a reasonable sized batch -- say 16 ounces (or 500 grams) of fats or more. No parts of your soap have that dead-white chalky look of too much TD.

I've seen plenty of other people's soap that's heavily loaded with TD, and I've never seen this kind of result in those people's soap. I have used small amounts of TD for years and never seen any tendency toward softness or weeping, but then I don't soap with a 20% or more superfat and 26.5% lye concentration.

There are some issues with your approach to making soap that are really pushing the envelope and greatly increasing the chances of serious failure. Maybe the TD is the "straw that broke the camel's back" for your approach to making soap. Hard to say.

 

[Satinfox]

I use between 1-4% SF for my regular soaps... Higher only with brine and salt bars. My personal rule is, the higher the cleansing factor, the higher the superfat. Since I almost never go above 18% coconut oil (again, except brine and salt bars), I can get away with lower superfat..

Nice color combo, btw

Thanks!

I use <4% SF and max 5% castor oil.
Did you preheat or turn the oven on when you put your soap batter in it?

No, the oven was not warm or on. It was just to keep air off.

You don't give the actual weights of the fats in your recipe, so I can't check your recipe to see if you're calculating it correctly. But I can definitely say the soap shouldn't sting your skin unless you have unusually sensitive skin or there is excess alkali in the soap.

If you have skin that sensitive, you simply may not be able to use lye-based soap. If you're calculation method is off, you need to correct that.

1/4 tsp titanium dioxide isn't an excessive amount if used in a reasonable sized batch -- say 16 ounces (or 500 grams) of fats or more. No parts of your soap have that dead-white chalky look of too much TD.

I've seen plenty of other people's soap that's heavily loaded with TD, and I've never seen this kind of result in those people's soap. I have used small amounts of TD for years and never seen any tendency toward softness or weeping, but then I don't soap with a 20% or more superfat and 26.5% lye concentration.

There are some issues with your approach to making soap that are really pushing the envelope and greatly increasing the chances of serious failure. Maybe the TD is the "straw that broke the camel's back" for your approach to making soap. Hard to say.

Thanks DeeAnna, we appreciate your analysis. Certainly will look at the SF.

I agree with the others. Superfat too high, too much water used as well as some overheating. How old are the soap that are causing the stinging and dryness? If they are young that’s to be expected. Did you zap test them?

No. We use a pH meter and cure 4 weeks before washing our hands with them.

 

[cmzaha]

My soap batches are 59 oz of oils and I have used up to 2 tbs of TD, in a third of the batch, in the past with absolutely no problems. I also never go over 2-3% superfat unless I make a goof or I am making salt bars. I sell a lot of soap with no complaints of soap stinging so I am also thinking maybe you simply cannot use lye-based soap. There are people who cannot use it.

 

[shunt2011]

No. We use a pH meter and cure 4 weeks before washing our hands with them.

A PH meter will not tell you of there is active lye. Nor will strips.

 

[Satinfox]

A PH meter will not tell you of there is active lye. Nor will strips.

We read about the ASTM standard of testing soap for pH.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yes, there is an ASTM standard for testing pH. It's good you're using an approved, rigorous method.

But what Shari is trying to tell you is that knowing the pH doesn't necessarily mean anything other than just that -- the pH. What do you think the pH value is telling you besides just the pH?

 

[Satinfox]

Yes, there is an ASTM standard for testing pH. It's good you're using an approved, rigorous method.

But what Shari is trying to tell you is that knowing the pH doesn't necessarily mean anything other than just that -- the pH. What do you think the pH value is telling you besides just the pH?

A high pH should indicate if there is too much lye floating around, if the soap is lye heavy.

 

[DeeAnna]

Actually, that's not necessarily true. Soap with no excess alkali can range in pH from about 9.5 to about 11.5, depending on the fatty acids used to make the soap.

A soap with a pH of 11 could be skin safe (no excess alkali) and another soap with a pH of 10 could be lye heavy (excess alkali). If you only know pH, how do you tell which one is which?