Round 2 - SoapmakingFriend.com

Discussion in 'SoapmakingFriend.com Support Forum' started by Admin, Oct 17, 2018.

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  1. Oct 23, 2018 #81

    amd

    amd

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "steps to produce this error". I put in a recipe in the calculator. That's how I got the error.

    Today I noticed that when I put in a 16 oz recipe, the recipe calculations were correct. When I changed the oz to 32 (not creating a new recipe, just changing the fields), the calculations then changed to a 3oz recipe instead of a 32 oz.
    upload_2018-10-23_10-47-48.png

    When I changed the recipe back to 16 oz, the error showed up for the 1 oz recipe calculation.
    upload_2018-10-23_10-49-19.png
     
  2. Oct 23, 2018 #82

    MadTeddyBear

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    This is a timing issue, every input change is being sent to be calculated and in some circumstances the "1" is finishing after "16" so it's treated as the final result.

    Here's the network traffic I saw when I ran into this.
    TrafficTrace.JPG

    The fifth request was the last one completed so my recipe was calculated for size of 1 instead of 16. Seven requests sent for each input change and all of the requests were initiated within 500ms of the first.
     
  3. Oct 23, 2018 #83

    MadTeddyBear

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    There's an error when calculating batch size based on mold dimensions. The calculation is generating the correct total oil weight, but showing it as total batch weight.

    Entering 10" x 3.5" x 2.5" updates mold capacity and total batch weight to 35oz. Those dimensions are about 80 cubic inches, which is 48oz by volume. Unchecking that options calculates 35oz of oil to around 50oz total batch size with 33% lye concentration.
     
  4. Oct 23, 2018 #84

    amd

    amd

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    It wasn't changing before no matter how long I waited. Now it is changing instantly, I can see it change from 16 to 3 to 32. Before it wasn't doing that, it was sitting on 3, not for a second but for MINUTES. In some cases (such as when I reported that the issue still existed) I entered the 16 oz recipe, that was fine. Then I changed it to 32, which calculated the 3 oz. I did something else for 15 minutes (or longer), and came back to it and it was still 3 oz. I'm not sure what your picture is showing me... but... okay.
     
  5. Oct 23, 2018 #85

    MadTeddyBear

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    The picture was more to help the developer figure out what's going on.

    A more non-technical explanation: Imagine you're at a restaurant and the first time the server comes around you order an appetizer. Then after another minute you've figured out what you want to eat and order your main course. You were expecting the appetizer to arrive first, but it never appears. After you're done eating and ready for the check the server finally brings out your appetizer.

    So when you're typing in "32" the calculator is asking for "3" as the appetizer and "32" as the main course. Then it shows whatever the most recent "course" is which should be for 32, not 3. But in this case the "appetizer" is showing up late and so the 32 is thrown out and all you're given is the results for 3. The calculator won't do anything else until you change the form again.
     
  6. Oct 24, 2018 #86

    Dawni

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    Oh.. Then it does the same things for additives.
    Results give you ml, even when you've changed to grams.. Then it reverts back to grams when you do something else somewhere.
    In my case, when I added another additive, all previous ones changed back to grams but the latest one stayed as ml until I left it to up my oil lol
     
  7. Oct 24, 2018 #87

    SoapmakingFriend

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    Thanks for the useful information , will apply a fix today
     
  8. Oct 26, 2018 #88

    Southpaw

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    Just tried it with my favorite recipe. Looks really good, a lot of information.
     
  9. Oct 27, 2018 #89

    Dawni

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    Should I post this here or the additives thread?

    Sugar and salt info both say add to lye, while sodium lactate info says add to oils:
    _20181027_122918.JPG
    However, in the results, both salt and sugar are under add at trace, and sodium lactate is under add with liquid:
    _20181027_122850.JPG
    I have not tested with the other additives, but if you guys need help with checking each one I can make time, lemme know ^^

    Also, when using phone, text is too long when editing additives:
    _20181027_123627.JPG
    So you can't really see what I'm assuming says "per pound of oils"

    It's also not letting me save after editing. Nothing happens when I click it.
     
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  10. Oct 27, 2018 #90

    bathgeek

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    Personally I don’t recommend adding sugar to your warm lye solution unless you premixed it or you wait for the lye to cool. Burning sugar is a real thing. Then again, maybe you WANT caramel instead of sugar...? ^_^
     
  11. Oct 27, 2018 #91

    gloopygloop

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    In additives the only option appears to be by the "spoon" I add additives by % is that an option and I think most of us in the UK do it that way because of safety assessment requirements, also is a Tsp a table spoon or a tea spoon? in the UK we would presume this to be Tea spoon
     
  12. Oct 27, 2018 #92

    LionLady

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    Just now putting together a soap recipe... I use virgin coconut oil, cause that's what I've generally got on hand. Can that be added?
     
  13. Oct 27, 2018 #93

    Dawni

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    Coconut oil, virgin or otherwise, is one of the most used oils in soap making.
    It is already there :)
    Just figure out if yours is the "normal" kind which melts at 76, or hydrogenated which melts at 92. The SAP value is the same.
    Unless it's fractionated, which should be indicated on your label, and costs more than virgin. SAP value of this one is not the same as the two above ^^
     
  14. Oct 27, 2018 #94

    LionLady

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    Thanks, I suspected as much. Some other lye calculators list virgin coconut oil separately. I guess that's to make the calc more user friendly.

    How do I change the heading "New Recipe" to what I'm making? I've got two print outs of soaps, that say "New Recipe" - can't figure out how to enter what I want to call my soap? I'm on my laptop.

    Figured out how to change Title...
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  15. Oct 27, 2018 #95

    reinbeau

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    Have to say I've not seen the adjective 'virgin' used in any lye calculator as related to coconut oil, but I haven't used them all, just the common ones.

    Goat's milk is not there as an additive, and I'm not talking about the powder. Since it's so common I'm curious why it isn't since so many use it. I'd like a place in the additives to check when using alternative liquids, ala SM3.
     
  16. Oct 28, 2018 #96

    Christy Moss

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    I like it so far. Will continue to test it.
     
  17. Oct 28, 2018 #97

    DeeAnna

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    I took a quick look tonight. Lots of hard work has been done. I like the changes!

    As a person who comes to soapmaking from a chemistry and engineering background, I strongly recommend that the default water:lye ratio be set to 2:1, not 2.5:1. The corresponding lye concentration should thus be a default of 33%.

    I know the "full water" myth is still alive and well in the small-scale soap making world, but I'd sure like to see the SMF calc make a break from this concept. Many of the more experienced soap makers here on SMF typically recommend a 33% lye concentration (2:1 water:lye ratio) for typical soap recipes. There are exceptions to that general rule, but 33% is a good starting place for most people and most soap recipes most of the time.

    We get far too many new soapers complaining about problems that can often be traced directly to using too much water. They're using too much water because that's the way the calcs are set up -- people assume the defaults are decent basic settings to use ... but in this case the default is not a good choice.

    Please don't let the SMF calc use the same "full water" default that the other calcs use -- it's time to make a change for the better.

    I'd also love to see the "water as % of oils" thing be entirely deleted, but I suspect that's too sacred of a cow to shoot. So as a compromise, I recommend the default for "water as % of oils" should be about 31% rather than the typical 38%. That very roughly corresponds to a 2:1 water:lye ratio for a typical blend of fats.

    Minor issues:

    Section 3 is titled "amount of liquid in the recipe". I guarantee someone is going to think this means ANY liquid, including liquid oils and fragrances, rather than just the water-based liquids only.

    We just had a discussion in the last week or so about the reasons why you have to dissolve alkali in water or a water-based liquid, rather than dissolve the alkali in just one's liquid fats/oils. So this point of view, while admittedly unusual, is really a thing out there that some people think about.

    Ditto for the terminology of "Liquid : Lye Ratio" rather than "Water:Lye ratio." This terminology is also used in the Recipe Totals section of the Results.

    Section 4: Superfat is superfat. It's not "oil superfat." If I make a 100% lard soap, I have zero oils in the recipe. But I can still have a superfat.

    In the Recipe Totals section, Recipe Properties subsection, the name "Ins" should be correctly all capitalized -- "INS". It's an acronym.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  18. Oct 28, 2018 #98

    Dawni

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    Actually yes, I've made the mistake of adding sugar to the water after the sodium hydroxide and botched my batch (due to other factors as well, but this was one lol).
    Maybe it should be add to warm liquid before lye or something like that?

    Also, I am sure we all use additives differently. For example, here Activated charcoal says add to fats but what if I want my default to be add at trace or if HP, add after the cook? I think I read somewhere that there will be options for custom defaults.. Will it be for additives, too?

    PS. I really want a "after cook" option for additives lol I think it'll help for those who HP and use natural colorants and the like ^^
     
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