Rosemary oleoresin extract, vitamin e, vitamin C and anything else ?.... things to keep bars from going rancid.

[ShaunaD]

Hi, I’ve been using hemp oil and i really like the natural colour and recipe I’ve made. Just found out that hemp oil has a short shelf like, like 6 months and need to store oil in fridge has brought up many questions. I’m going to order some rosemary oleoresins extract to start to add to this recipe but if avocado oil is in it does the vitamin E in it prolong shelf like ? And at what percent of avocado oil would do so? Or if I use essential oil of lemongrass or lemon Myrtle, could these have vitamin C that can extend the bar? Should i be including ROE or vit E or C rich oils in every batch I use hemp seed oil in just to be sure ? I feel like when I give away soap I need to tell people to use it in the next few months because I’m not sure what it will do. Fine for friends and family but I’m daydreaming of selling one day.
I made an 85% olive oil and 15 % hemp oil bar that i was going to cure for 6 months but now think it will go rancid . Would adding ROE next time to this recipe fix this? I need to find out more about amounts of ROE as I’ve seen it sometimes in recipes as just drops of it...or “can omit if oils fresh”.
I’m loving the more I make soap the more questions i have and I’ve learnt so much in 6 months !

 

[DeeAnna]

Just because a chemical is an antioxidant for the body or skin doesn't mean it's a good antioxidant for other purposes.

Vitamin E is not a good choice for lengthening the shelf life of fats. Vit E is a mixture of various tocopherols -- speaking from memory, I believe there are 6 or 8 chemicals that make up the tocopherol family. Only certain ones can help lengthen shelf life, and they only work as antioxidants if present in appropriate amounts.

If you add Vit E to a fat already high in tocopherols, you can actually reduce the shelf life, not lengthen it. Search for prooxidation if you want more background.

Vitamin C is a water soluble chemical. Why would you add it to fats?

My advice? Stick to ROE. And add it to the fat at the time of purchase, not later on when you're making soap.

Also keep short shelf life fats refrigerated even with added ROE. ROE will help, but it's not a miracle product. The nature of fatty acids is to break down over time especially with exposure to light, water, microorganisms, heat, metals, etc. ROE only slows the process, so add it early and do what you can to protect the fat by keeping it cool and in the dark.

If you're determined to make soap high in delicate fats such as hemp, you should also be looking into using a chelator as well as an antioxidant to prevent trace metals from accelerating rancidity.

 

[The_Phoenix]

Adding my own experience using hemp seed oil. I made three small batches in July and kept the usage under 10%. No rancidity, no DOS, nothing at all off-puting about the bars of soap (with the exception of the bar that I also used neem seed oil—the NSO smell is still detectable). They are really good bars of soap. Keep in mind I used nothing in the oil to prevent rancidity. I’ve kept the bottle in my in my refrigerator and just poured the last few ounces into a glass jar to store in the fridge. No detectable smell of rancidity.

I’m about to buy another gallon of HSO and will use ROE as soon as it arrives and still continue to store it in the fridge. I’m considering making a small batch using 12-15% and will test that for several months to see how it responds.

 

[DeeAnna]

Soap will typically do okay when the hemp, grapeseed, pumpkin, or other polyunsaturated fats is limited to 10% or so. The polyunsaturated fatty acid content is not dominating the fatty acid profile at this level.

The OP mentioned 15%. That's not a huge percentage either, so maybe it will be okay, but it's rising into the range where I'd start being more cautious.

 

[Magoo]

I also don't use more than 10% of the short life oil and I superfat at 4% or less. Minimizing the amount of unsaponified short life oils in the finished soap works well for me.

I only use ROE in oils I won't use right away. I use 0.04% ROE and also refrigerate them. I don't use Vitamin E.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

IMHO, hemp oil makes lovely soap, as do other oils that are high in linoleic fatty acid. I formulate my recipes so the linoleic FA is 15% or less of the total FA. A batch of hemp oil soap I made back in summer 2019, which was before I started using ROE and a chelator, was fine for many months until the soap was all used up. The only piece that developed DOS was an end piece that I tried to stamp with a silver belt buckle. That was before I knew about some metals accelerating rancidity in soap. I just pulled that 19 month old end piece out of storage to check on it. Maybe you can see in the photo below that the DOS is limited to the areas I stamped. The soap also had a matcha tea swirl running through it that has all but faded away.

 

[ShaunaD]

So much great information and examples. Thank you! Love this forum So I need to learn about chelator now and which oils I’m using that I should add ROE to and amounts. I’m loving hemp seed oil too so looking forward to perfecting a recipe. I’ll drop to 10% next batch and see what happens and use other oils and butters, not just olive oil.

 

[penelopejane]

To me it is just not worth the risk that if you give away a soap made with Hemp seed oil it may develop DOS in future.
There are many oils with similar properties that make lovely soap without having to worry about DOS. You do not know how the people you give soap to store it and how quickly they will use it. I've seen some horrific DOS soaps and I do every single thing I can to avoid it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

So I need to learn about chelator now and which oils I’m using that I should add ROE to and amounts.

Here's a link to learn more about the shelf life of various oils:
OILS - SHELF LIFE

You'll find good info on chelators, as well as many other topics here:
DEEANNA'S SOAPY STUFF

I use both ROE and vitamin E (antioxidants), added to oils, in soap and other B&B products. I buy my ROE from Lotion Crafter. It is highly viscuous. For ease of use, I make up the following :
1 oz. ROE
2 oz. Jojoba Oil (long shelf life)
Use 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon PPO (Per Pound Oils)
I've been soaping since 2004 and have never experienced DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) in my soaps. (Not braggin', just sayin' ) For more info, see ROE SwiftCrafty.PDF attached.

ROE (Rosemary Oleoresin Extract) USE RATE

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

IMHO, hemp oil makes lovely soap, as do other oils that are high in linoleic fatty acid. I formulate my recipes so the linoleic FA is 15% or less of the total FA. A batch of hemp oil soap I made back in summer 2019, which was before I started using ROE and a chelator, was fine for many months until the soap was all used up. The only piece that developed DOS was an end piece that I tried to stamp with a silver belt buckle. That was before I knew about some metals accelerating rancidity in soap. I just pulled that 19 month old end piece out of storage to check on it. Maybe you can see in the photo below that the DOS is limited to the areas I stamped. The soap also had a matcha tea swirl running through it that has all but faded away.

View attachment 53862

Wow this is so interesting how just a Silver Metal stamp coming into contact w/ your soap causes DOS' great example of what metals can do to soap.

Here's a link to learn more about the shelf life of various oils:
OILS - SHELF LIFE

You'll find good info on chelators, as well as many other topics here:
DEEANNA'S SOAPY STUFF

I use both ROE and vitamin E (antioxidants), added to oils, in soap and other B&B products. I buy my ROE from Lotion Crafter. It is highly viscuous. For ease of use, I make up the following :
1 oz. ROE
2 oz. Jojoba Oil (long shelf life)
Use 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon PPO (Per Pound Oils)
I've been soaping since 2004 and have never experienced DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) in my soaps. (Not braggin', just sayin' ) For more info, see ROE SwiftCrafty.PDF attached.

ROE (Rosemary Oleoresin Extract) USE RATE

Valuable Info'

 

[cmzaha]

I have made and sold a soap for years with hemp oil at 20% using EDTA, SG, and BHT with no DOS issues. It was always a very popular soap for me. I did add ROE when I received my gallon of Hemp Oil and always kept it refrigerated.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Here's a link to learn more about the shelf life of various oils:
OILS - SHELF LIFE

You'll find good info on chelators, as well as many other topics here:
DEEANNA'S SOAPY STUFF

I use both ROE and vitamin E (antioxidants), added to oils, in soap and other B&B products. I buy my ROE from Lotion Crafter. It is highly viscuous. For ease of use, I make up the following :
1 oz. ROE
2 oz. Jojoba Oil (long shelf life)
Use 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon PPO (Per Pound Oils)
I've been soaping since 2004 and have never experienced DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) in my soaps. (Not braggin', just sayin' ) For more info, see ROE SwiftCrafty.PDF attached.

ROE (Rosemary Oleoresin Extract) USE RATE

I keep my diluted ROE in a little dropper bottle that I labeled “Zany’s ROE.”

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I keep my diluted ROE in a little dropper bottle that I labeled “Zany’s ROE.”

 

[TheGecko]

Just because an oil or butter has a short shelf life, doesn't mean that the soap will have a short shelf life if it is a balanced bar of soap.

Two things you have to consider when choosing an oil, butter or additive is, 1) The majority of 'benefits' of these are destroyed by the Lye during the Saponification process so using something that is 'high in antioxidants' or 'packed with Vitamins A, B, C, D, E and XYZ' is a waste of money unless your are going for 'label' appeal. 2) Soap is a wash on/rinse off product that is only on your skin for maybe five or ten minutes. A balanced bar will get you clean without stripping the skin of its natural oils. All-in-all it's best to save the 'benefits' for products like lotions that will be on the skin longer.

And probably a third thing to consider when formulating any kind of bath and body product to be sold to the general public is that folks are going to do what they want. We know that if you leave your soap in any kind of standing water...it's going to get soft and dissolve quicker. We also know that if you place your soap in your shower where it is constantly going to get beaten on with water, it's going to dissolve quicker. But the general public may not know that, or may not think about it, or not even care. And too...they are used to commercial products that can take a lot of 'abuse' because of all the added chemicals.

 

[linne1gi]

The other thing I have found - the amount of superfat in a bar of soap matters as well. If you are using a short shelf life oil and a very high superfat, (like 9-10%) that bar is going to develop DOS relatively quickly. So along with an antioxidant, and a chelator, watch the amount of superfat.

 

[ShaunaD]

Here's a link to learn more about the shelf life of various oils:
OILS - SHELF LIFE

You'll find good info on chelators, as well as many other topics here:
DEEANNA'S SOAPY STUFF

I use both ROE and vitamin E (antioxidants), added to oils, in soap and other B&B products. I buy my ROE from Lotion Crafter. It is highly viscuous. For ease of use, I make up the following :
1 oz. ROE
2 oz. Jojoba Oil (long shelf life)
Use 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon PPO (Per Pound Oils)
I've been soaping since 2004 and have never experienced DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) in my soaps. (Not braggin', just sayin' ) For more info, see ROE SwiftCrafty.PDF attached.

ROE (Rosemary Oleoresin Extract) USE RATE

Wow, thank you for all this information!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Oops. Forgot to attach ROE SwiftCrafty PDF Here it is:

 

[Bar Blender's]

Interesting. What is used in CBD oil to keep it fresh. Maybe if you set the hemp oil up with that particular product or like product beforehand you can get a longer shelf life out of it. I'm just shooting out possibilities haven't tried this method lol

 

[penelopejane]

Interesting. What is used in CBD oil to keep it fresh. Maybe if you set the hemp oil up with that particular product or like product beforehand you can get a longer shelf life out of it. I'm just shooting out possibilities haven't tried this method lol

Yes it should increase the shelf life. Also refrigerate it. Hemp oil has a 6 month shelf life. Unfortunately, you don’t know how long it’s been sitting in the shop (despite the expiry date). It’s one oil I just don’t bother with.

 

[MarinaB]

Got hemp oil today. But will use it just for myself. I tbsp everyday. Very good for health.