Rosemary Oleoresin 2% turn soap muddy red?

Discussion in 'Beginners Soap Making Forum' started by Stephd31, Nov 7, 2018.

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  1. Nov 7, 2018 #1

    Stephd31

    Stephd31

    Stephd31

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    Hi,

    I'm Stephanie, and new to the forum. Let's cut to the chase.

    This week I did a couple of new things:
    1. Monday I made my first masterbatch from a recipe I've used several other times. (olive, palm, coconut, castor, and jojoba)
    2. I did change one thing, I added Rosemary Oleoresin to the masterbatch - perhaps this was a bad idea, but I did it anyway.
    3. I bought 50lbs of sodium hydroxide and used some of this new batch in my soap.
    Yesterday, I made three soap loaves from the masterbatch. After adding the lye for my first loaf, my soap turned a muddy red color. Almost as if I had added clay. My initial thoughts were hmm that's weird and proceeded.

    The second loaf, I added the EO's and titanium dioxide to the oils directly and first. It looked pretty white, then I added the lye and it turned the same color as the first batch.

    The third batch same thing.

    I've never used Rosemary Oleoresin before and don't know if it is the cause of the redness. I haven't cut the soap yet to know if it turned out or not. In all my research on this additive, I didn't read anything about it changing the color of the oils.

    Is it possible the lye is bad and caused the soap to change color?

    Any information would be helpful.

    Thank you!
    Stephanie
     
  2. Nov 7, 2018 #2

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

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    It was the lye mixing with high ROE use.

    Usage rate for ROE is in the vicinity of 0.02%-0.1% depending on supplier, so it requires a tiny amount. I am guessing you went the 2%. making your addition 1.98% to high, using the low rate. If so it could definitely affect the color and I am not sure how it will affect the soap. This is why I do not masterbatch large amounts but use individual buckets when I batch oils. It is much easier to fix smaller amounts.

    This is just a statement on the msds sheet from LotionCrafter link for full msds is below
    *Notable Exposure symptoms: No information is on file to date regarding acute and/or delayed post-exposure symptoms and effects
    http://www.lotioncrafter.com/reference/sds_rosemary_oleoresin_20160613.pdf

    So you should just be dealing with muddy red soap :( :D Happy it should only discolor
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  3. Nov 7, 2018 #3

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

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    I agree, you likely used way too much ROE. That would explain the discoloration.
     
  4. Nov 7, 2018 #4

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

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    I agree with Shari and Carolyn. Way too much ROE. You did good to add the ROE to the masterbatched fat blend, but you should recalibrate yourself to use a more appropriate dosage.

    ROE at the correct (very small) dosage can cause the soap batter to flush to an orange or reddish color right after the fats and lye are mixed together. The batter returns to normal color shortly afterwards. My finished soap is not discolored.

    More about ROE: https://classicbells.com/soap/ROE.html
     
  5. Nov 7, 2018 #5

    Stephd31

    Stephd31

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    I am HORRIBLE at math and usually use my husband as a math checker, but he wasn't around. I did the math twice before weighing out the ROE. Looking at my handy phone calculator that keeps my history. What I tried to do was .02% of 7,400g oils. So here is what my calculator says. I'm sorry for such simple math being something I need checked by an online community, but if you can look at this and let me know.

    7.4 x .02 = .148 which now that I'm looking at this, pretty sure I will need to throw this soap out. I used 148g of ROE.
     
  6. Nov 7, 2018 #6

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

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    Why throw out the soap? It is a wash-off product. Refer to the link I added above for Lotioncrafter's mds sheet. You are really dealing with ugly color, should be nothing harmful, unless an allergy to rosemary is an existing allergy for the person using it. But it is your choice.
     
  7. Nov 7, 2018 #7

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

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    You can't ignore the % (percent) sign. When you see the English word "percent" or the % symbol, you must always convert the percent into the language of math. We write the word as "percent" nowadays. spelled all as one word, but it used to be written as two words "per cent." So think of it as two words, each one with a clear meaning --

    "Per" means to divide.
    "Cent" means 100 (like century)
    "Per cent" means to divide by 100

    So --
    0.02 % = 0.02 per cent = 0.02 / 100 = 0.0002

    Your math question: How much is 0.02% of 7400 grams?

    One way to calculate this in one step--
    0.02 / 100 X 7400 = 1.48 grams

    Another way in two steps --
    0.02/100 = 0.0002
    0.0002 X 7400 = 1.48 grams

    edit: I'd use the fat and the soap. It's safe to use. But I would get it used up reasonably promptly. Too much antioxidant may accelerate oxidation and rancidity rather than reduce it. This may or may not happen; it's just something to keep in mind.
     
    Mobjack Bay and cmzaha like this.
  8. Nov 7, 2018 #8

    Stephd31

    Stephd31

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    @cmzaha Thank you for the link! I'll read through it right now. I do not want to throw it out.

    @DeeAnna That explains a lot! Thank you for your help, what a foolish mistake. Live and learn.

    Thank you, everyone, who took the time to reply to this thread. I appreciate you taking out the time to help me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2018

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