Rehab the hair (or how to get away from lye based shampoo)?

[szaza]

Hello!

A couple of months ago a friend gave me one of her shampoo bars and I've been hooked! But after reading some horror stories on this forum I kind of want to get un-hooked.. I don't want to go back to regular shampoo, because my hair only looks good for one day and then it's not yet dirty or oily but just bleh.. nothing can be done with it to make it look nice. I felt with lye soap my hair had more 'texture', but having waist-lenght hair I don't want to risk having to cut it all. Basically, I have 3 questions (should I have split this in 3 threads? I wasn't sure)

1. Before lye based soap I used clays for a while, but they made my hair gunky. I'm wondering if I could play around with clays to find a better way to use them. For now, I've only used french green and pink clays, because I had them on hand. Maybe I should try another type of clay like Rhassoul. Does anyone have any experience with this?
2. Are there any syndet-shampoo makers here that can give some tips on how to look for a good syndet based shampoo? I'm not going to start to make any myself for now, but it would be nice to have some more insight in what different ingredients bring to the table and what to look for or avoid. Right now, all the syndet ingredients look like wizarding spells to me.
3. In the transition period away from lye soap I might still use it once in a while.. does anyone have any idea or an educated guess on how often I could still use lye soap without too big a risk? I now wash my hair about once a week, would it be possible to use lye soap once every month or so?

 

[dixiedragon]

Do you use Reddit? It's a ginormous forum with many many many subforums. One of those is entirely devoted to long hair. Google Reddit and Long Hair. You might be able to find other users in Belgium who could direct you to specific products.

I have very very, very thick long hair. I wash about every 3 days (wash 1 day, skip 2 days, wash again). I am really really liking the Lush shampoo bars, especially Honey I washed the kids and Jason and the Argan Oil. Some of the other ones (the purple one and the coconut scented one) did not work for my hair.
https://nl.lush.com/shop/antwerpen-belgie

The shop near me will give out little samples of stuff to try. I have also recently started using R&B:
https://www.lushusa.com/hair/hair-treatments/randb/03080.html

And I really like it.

Swiftcraftymonkey has a lot of good info on her blog, but she recently made access paid.

Another option might be to buy shampoo bars from Etsy.

 

[szaza]

Thank you dixiedragon! I've tried a lush shampoo bar before and didn't like it, but that was 10 years ago.. maybe I should give it another try
I've found the long hair reddit. I always forget how much information there is on reddit about pretty much everything!

 

[BattleGnome]

One idea that I’ve been rolling around is to use 18th century hair care methods or look even earlier. Back the it was almost necessary to have long hair, especially if you were upper class. I haven’t started looking yet but it could be an option. I am curious on the clay method. Do you just dust your roots and brush it through?

For reference, I use baby shampoo 1-2x a week with a Lauriel conditioner (leftover from when my husband used conditioner). I usually wait until my hair is noticeably greasy. I have dark, used to be thick, not yet mermaid length hair. I also use semi permanent hair colors but with my washing schedule they end up acting like permanent.

 

[szaza]

Hey BattleGnome!

Thanks for the tip of using baby shampoo! It makes sense that baby shampoos are formulated to be very mild and they are generally cheaper than the super mild fancy adult ones.. and if I end up not liking it, I'm sure one of my mommy-friends will be able to use it

I've done a bit of googling about 18th century hair care, and the only thing I can find is that they combed a lot and washed every once in a while with lye soap to get excess pommade out of their hair. One of the sites I read quoted a manual for ladies in the 1830's that suggested letting a piece of soap sit a few moments in half a cup of lukewarm water and washing the hair with a sponge dipped in this soapy water. Maybe this would be milder on the hair because the soap is more diluted in the water than when you use the lather? It could also just be that they recommended washing hair this way to save water, because they didn't have showers and baths with faucets like we do now..
These are the links to pages I found that mention washing the hair:
https://www.geriwalton.com/georgian-hair-womans-crowning-glory-and/
http://twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot.com/2014/07/hair-care-in-1820s-1830s.html
In case you're interested in more 18th century stuff, heres a link that talks about the evolution of 18th century hairstyles:
http://demodecouture.com/hairstyles-cosmetics-18th-century/
and this one analyses 18th century hygiene:
http://madameisistoilette.blogspot.com/2014/09/keeping-clean-in-18th-century.html
Unfortunately washing hair isn't mentioned in the last 2 links.
Anyway, I'm trying to get away from using lye soap and even most 18th century sources seem to not recommend washing too often with it..

All tutorials on how to use clay on your hair include making a clay mask with some water and some extra ingredients like acid (lemon juice or ACV), honey, nourishing oils and fragrance. When I was using clay to wash my hair I preferred to only use lemon juice, water and clay but I guess everybody is different. I also never really cracked the code on how to use clay properly, as it left my hair full of gunk and feeling pretty dry/brittle.

"You are a mermaid, sir" OMG that's hilarious!

 

[amd]

I have recently been trying CO washing, with some success. Surprisingly my hair is less gunky doing this - my hair dresser always complains that my hair has a film on it, and it didn't matter if I used salon products or cheap products (or all the stuff in between). After a month of doing this, my hair has been less filmy. I only CO wash once or twice a week, and switch around between whatever is in the shower for shampoo... currently my husband's shampoo and a surfactant shampoo bar that I picked up in China last year. The days I use shampoo I condition with a leave in conditioner. On the days I CO wash, I skip washing my hair the next day.

 

[dixiedragon]

I'm not sure how much hair washing actually happened in the 18th century. IIRC, one reason that hair from Indian women is so long, healthy and desirable for wigs and extensions is that they rarely wash it, but put a bit of coconut oil in it.

 

[Obsidian]

Baby shampoo being mild is just a myth, its it's generally a full on sulfate shampoo. Its formulated not to sting eyes, thats the only real difference.
If you can find it, look into acure shampoo and conditioner. Its sulfate and cone free, not terribly expensive and works well.

 

[Cellador]

I used to wash my hair with a solution made with soapnuts, amla, and shikakai powder (there's lots of info online). But, it took me a long time to prepare & wash....I have oily hair and need to wash about 4 times a week, so I just couldn't keep up with it. I really liked my hair during that time period though.

 

[szaza]

Hmm.. I'm sure I answered yesterday! I did see that my post was waiting for admin approval, so probably it was not approved (I tried to quote, maybe I did it wrong). I'll try again today

Thank you all for your suggestions! I really appreciate it, so many new ideas

Obsidian, thanks for clarifying before I bought the baby shampoo.. I was so hoping that would be the perfect, cheap and simple solution, but it was too good to be true. The brand you suggested can be shipped from the US to Europe, but shipping costs are about the same as the product price (or more). So far none of the EU/UK sellers I found carries the shampoo. But I'll keep looking

amd, co-washing is definately worth the try! I think I'm going to look for a shampoo/conditioner system that I like and then see how my hair does with conditioner only. I have very thin, straight hair, so co-wash only could weigh it down, but the system you describe of alternating shampoo and co-wash might work!

dixiedragon, thanks for your input! You're right about Indian hair and I just remembered my mom has an Indian friend who used to have very beautiful long hair (it's still beautiful, just a little shorter now) I sent her an email to ask about her hair care routine. If anyone is interested I can post her reply when she answers.

Cellador, I'm going to try to see if I can find those 3 ingredients.. I've read a bit about it online and it does sound like a lot of work, so I understand why you stopped using it.. do you think it would be possible to make a lot at once and freeze it in icecubes, so when you want to take a shower you just melt some icecubes and you're ready to go?

 

[Cellador]

Cellador, I'm going to try to see if I can find those 3 ingredients.. I've read a bit about it online and it does sound like a lot of work, so I understand why you stopped using it.. do you think it would be possible to make a lot at once and freeze it in icecubes, so when you want to take a shower you just melt some icecubes and you're ready to go?

Yes, you can do that, and I did for awhile...just remember to take them out early enough. Otherwise, you're in for a cold bath/shower. Lol

 

[Carrie]

isn't the lye gone after the saponification process? i don't see how it could hurt your hair if this is so.

 

[artemis]

isn't the lye gone after the saponification process? i don't see how it could hurt your hair if this is so.

It's not the lye, it's the pH of the soap that can be damaging to the hair.

 

[szaza]

Hey Carrie,

Yes, the lye should be gone after saponification if you've used a good recipe, but the soap's pH is still on the alkaline side of the spectrum, while hair prefers a slightly acidic environment. Some people solve this by using an acidic rinse, but it seems even that cannot protect the hair from damage from the alkalinity of soap. There is a very long thread about making lye based shampoo bars on this forum. Many people who have tried it and initially loved the soap bars on their hair have had major damage after prolonged use. There are some exceptions, but it seems like a big risk to take..

If someone has something to add to this, feel free!

This is the link to the shampoo bar thread (I have to admid I didn't read all of it myself, but scanned through a big portion of it):
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/

Edit: While this post was waiting for moderator approval (because of the link I guess) it was invisible to others and has already become redundat.. I can't find an option to remove it, so I'm sorry for the double/repeated info

 

[Carrie]

thanks! so if i work with a soap calculator, i just need to concentrate on the ph level?

 

[dixiedragon]

thanks! so if i work with a soap calculator, i just need to concentrate on the ph level?

Nope, because soap naturally has a high pH level. That's just part of it's nature as soap. It just isn't possible to lower the pH enough yet have it remain soap. For example, you can add a bunch of lemon juice to it - but that will just gobble up the lye and leave with a bunch of unsaponfied oil, and some greasy, squishy soap. A few posters on here washed their long hair with soap for a while, and liked it...and then the damage showed up and the hair started breaking off and they had to get their hair cut short, b/c there was no saving it.

 

[Carrie]

thanks again! i was really looking forward to making shampoos bars. i guess this means there is no such thing.

 

[dixiedragon]

thanks again! i was really looking forward to making shampoos bars. i guess this means there is no such thing.

You can, actually, but shampoo bar =/= soap bar. SCM has a good recipe, but (as I mentioned), you now have to pay for access. You get different ingredients, which include synthetic surfectants, etc, melt them down and make a bar. I think, I haven't done it.

 

[Obsidian]

Obsidian, thanks for clarifying before I bought the baby shampoo.. I was so hoping that would be the perfect, cheap and simple solution, but it was too good to be true. The brand you suggested can be shipped from the US to Europe, but shipping costs are about the same as the product price (or more). So far none of the EU/UK sellers I found carries the shampoo. But I'll keep looking

Sorry, didn't notice your location. Maybe look into noughty or natura siberica, I think those are available in Belgium.

 

[szaza]

Sorry, didn't notice your location. Maybe look into noughty or natura siberica, I think those are available in Belgium.

Thanks obsidian! Yes those brands are sold here