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Hello everyone!

This is my first time posting on any type of soap thread, so I just want to say I am happy to have found a community to reach out to for help! I am open to all suggestions, thanks in advance!

So, I am reformulating a best selling Turmeric & Vitamin C Beauty Bar (previously a MP recipe). I would like to make a CP soap bar recipe. I have used SoapCalc and my research skills to manually formulate what I will list below. With the additives, I would create a paste then stick blend with GM MP soap base. I would love to be able to use them all however, I understand lye works differently. So, I am very interested in what you have to say about this recipe and where I might consider adopting changes! (Side notes: I am a beginner and lye. This bar is crafted to target hyper pigmentation and dark spots, great for combination skin, provide a overall glow and can be used daily or twice a day on generally normal skin to non-problematic skin.)

Question 1: Must I have Lauric, Myrisitic, Ricinoleic acids in my recipe to create a creamy lather, pretty hard bar that lasts about 1 month to 6 weeks being used twice daily (4-4.5 oz bars)? (FYI: I have 0% of all three of these acids)

Question 2: Some of my "Soap Bar Quality" numbers are not in the range they should be, how important are these numbers for a recipe? How can I possibly adjust these numbers based on the information provided?

Question 3: I would like to only use raw GM instead of water, I've seen on some forums that people simply freeze then add in same amount of GM as would be water? I've also seen others dilute the GM with water (50/50). Will using only GM affect the recipe?

Question 4: I've seen to add 1/2 tbsp to every lb of soap, is this correct? Have you worked with any of these additives, will it affect trace or quality of soap? All additives used at about 5% or lower

64 oz of oils
Hemp (30%)
Sunflower (willing to consider high oleic-30%)
Rice Bran Oil, refined (30%)
Shea Butter (10%-added for hardness [my logic lol])
**After further research I noticed that possibly adding castor oil will add to the 0% lauric acid of my soap)

Water (GM)
16.25 oz

Superfat
7%

Lye Concentration
33%

Additives
Turmeric powder
Kaolin Clay
Vitamin C powder (citric acid)
Niacinamide
Tea Tree E/O
Herb Blend (infused in oils)
 
if you’ve never made CP soap before, I recommend you start with smaller batches, and try a couple of simple established recipes first. Then graduate on to goat milk and formulating your own. Milk is tricky, and with lye there’s always the added danger of “this could scar your hands and blind you forever”, so baby steps.

To save money, you can also skip the additives until you get the hang of it; from experience, it hurts more when a batch goes wrong and you had put good ingredients into it.
 
With 30% hemp, 30% rice bran oil, and 30% conventional sunflower, the linoleic and linolenic content of this recipe is very high, putting the soap at risk for becoming rancid quickly. Have you given some consideration to this issue?

Even with 10% shea, I would not expect this recipe to last long in the bath and it may not lather all that well.

Be careful with additives. Vitamin C is an acid. Acids do not survive in soap -- they react with lye to form various salts. Also, you cannot assume the "benefits" of herbal infusions and similar additives to survive saponification.

64 oz of fats will make a HUGE batch of soap. You have no idea if you even like this soap. And being a beginner, you're more likely to make a major mistake. Wouldn't it be better to make a 16 oz test batch (about 4 typical bars of soap) to build your skills? And also to test how you like the soap?
 
if you’ve never made CP soap before, I recommend you start with smaller batches, and try a couple of simple established recipes first. Then graduate on to goat milk and formulating your own. Milk is tricky, and with lye there’s always the added danger of “this could scar your hands and blind you forever”, so baby steps.

To save money, you can also skip the additives until you get the hang of it; from experience, it hurts more when a batch goes wrong and you had put good ingredients into it.
Thanks so much for the reply and suggestion Blufuz! I have used lye before however have never thought about formulating lol. A very basic Castile. However, I am still very interested in knowing about this particular formula in the meantime of me learning to work with milk! Any suggestions to the recipe, especially the questions would be greatly appreciated! (I’ve made some alterations based on research, just wanted to hear real experiences) again, thanks for your reply! You’re appreciated 💕

With 30% hemp, 30% rice bran oil, and 30% conventional sunflower, the linoleic and linolenic content of this recipe is very high, putting the soap at risk for becoming rancid quickly. Have you given some consideration to this issue?

Even with 10% shea, I would not expect this recipe to last long in the bath and it may not lather all that well.

Be careful with additives. Vitamin C is an acid. Acids do not survive in soap -- they react with lye to form various salts. Also, you cannot assume the "benefits" of herbal infusions and similar additives to survive saponification.

64 oz of fats will make a HUGE batch of soap. You have no idea if you even like this soap. And being a beginner, you're more likely to make a major mistake. Wouldn't it be better to make a 16 oz test batch (about 4 typical bars of soap) to build your skills? And also to test how you like the soap?
Thanks so much DeeAnna! Yes! After further research, I understand why I should not be using that combination in those amounts (I have most of these oils already) I’ve altered the oils & butters to castor (10%), hemp (10%), sunflower (15%), coconut 76 deg (10%) Rice Bran (20%), Cocoa, Shea, & Murumuru Butter (10%, respectively).

Now, I understand also the different salts that are forms with acids. However, under the assumption that acids or herbal infusions will not survive the saponification process. How do soaps have healing properties etc?


I also reformulated the test batches to be 20 oz which would give me about 10-2 oz tester bars of soap. But I will refuormukaye to be 16 so I can make 2-3 testers, some with acids, some without. I have also switched my Vitamin C to Azleaic acid. Will use between 3-5%
 
Your new recipe adds up to only 95%, and you are still adding an acid. That will not reduce the soap’s pH and will only increase the superfat because it uses up some of your lye. This is true of any acid.
Thank you so much! I am not sure if I mis typed my numbers but SoapCalc processed it. Yes! I remember seeing that fact on a YT video! Even if I added it afterward soaponification it would still increase my super fat, I remember that? Thank you, if I wanted a superfat between 7-8% should I increase the lye amount a little to make up for the acids? Or is having a higher superfat percentage bad? For example I’m aiming for 7% but if it’s 9-10% due to acids would that make the bar softer or not as good quality?
 
I think 7% SF is high already, honestly. That does make the bar softer, more likely to go rancid, and more likely to create soap scum. If you formulate a nice recipe, you don’t need a high SF at all.

Personally, I don’t like guessing when it comes to things that will use up some lye. It is best to know how much lye will be neutralized by your additives, and then replace that. Also, what is the purpose of adding the acid, since it won’t lower the pH, and won’t survive the lye? Remember that you cannot leagally make claims that your soap will lighten skin, moisturize, etc.

If adding the acid is just for label appeal, consider making your first soaps without it. It’s important to learn the basics first, and then have a really good reason for each additive, since each one complicates the process. @Blufuz gave good advice to start with just the oils (infused oils are fine) while you learn to make soap. 😉
 
Okay that
I think 7% SF is high already, honestly. That does make the bar softer, more likely to go rancid, and more likely to create soap scum. If you formulate a nice recipe, you don’t need a high SF at all.

Personally, I don’t like guessing when it comes to things that will use up some lye. It is best to know how much lye will be neutralized by your additives, and then replace that. Also, what is the purpose of adding the acid, since it won’t lower the pH, and won’t survive the lye? Remember that you cannot leagally make claims that your soap will lighten skin, moisturize, etc.

If adding the acid is just for label appeal, consider making your first soaps without it. It’s important to learn the basics first, and then have a really good reason for each additive, since each one complicates the process. @Blufuz gave good advice to start with just the oils (infused oils are fine) while you learn to make soap. 😉
okay that makes sense. So at this point I’m thinking about just sticking with my melt n pour recipe. The bars go quicker, however it seems like I have more versatility with additives. I already have a business going with orders about everyday. For this particular soap I’m crafting, I just wanted to create a lye version of it. But it’s seeming to complicate my ingredients too much! Again, thanks so much for your suggestions! I truly appreciate the feedback .
 
I don't have a lot to offer compared to some of the more experienced soapers here as far as your recipe goes, but I can tell you that adding turmeric powder can make the soap bar a bit scratchy to some. You can avoid this by infusing the turmeric into the olive oil and then straining it. I've used turmeric infused olive oil at 20% of a recipe without any problems, but if you use too much, you can end up with yellow lather. Note (because I was shocked when it happened the first time): Your soap batter will turn Halloween orange and then turn to bright golden yellow within a couple of days. As the soap cures, the yellow color dulls to a darker golden tan/yellow.
 
Now, I understand also the different salts that are forms with acids. However, under the assumption that acids or herbal infusions will not survive the saponification process. How do soaps have healing properties etc?

It took me a while to learn this as well, but when you think about it, it unfortunately makes sense: most extra properties that various additives might have will not have an impact on the soap user for the very simple fact that they don’t stay in contact for very long. The whole purpose of soap is to wash stuff off, and so even if you’re singing a slow Happy Birthday while washing, that’s less than a minute. By contrast, lotions and stay-on products are where you might have better chances of an effect.

Of course, anyone who has used different soaps will know, different ingredients can still have an impact in that minute of washing; like how much “cleansing” happens when your natural oils get stripped off, and the goal is to mitigate this as much as possible. Also, some ingredients are irritating to some people, and others soothing. The trick is finding what actually does something, and what doesn’t. There’s a lot of good advice on this forum for that!

I’m a big fan of the process of testing, so I make lots of batches of soap where I change just one thing, then give them to my boyfriend to try (or I try them blindfolded), and see if he notices a difference. Sometimes it takes a while of using a soap to notice anything, but my philosophy is that if someone who doesn’t know what’s in it doesn’t have a preference within a week of using it, then the difference is not important. Better to ask sensitive people though 😅 or your target market.

Sometimes, ingredients just make people happy, like my 5 year old neighbor absolutely loves the carrot soap I gave him, just because there’s carrot in it. So if you make a whole line of products containing a specific ingredient, and people just like it, that’s reason enough to include it. It’s perfectly ok to just like something, without it having to be beneficial to your health 😊
 
...How do soaps have healing properties etc?...

After researching some of the many "special" additives used in handcrafted soap, I am of the opinion that very few special ingredients provide healing properties when used in soap. I think there is a lot of wishful thinking about what soap can and can't do.

Even for ingredients that do provide benefits if used in other products, there is little science-based evidence that they're able to provide similar benefits when used in soap.

Neem seed oil is an example. Research shows neem is beneficial when used in a leave-on product (for example a lotion or salve) for treating skin disorders, controlling skin parasites, or acting as a mosquito repellent, but when neem is used in soap, the evidence is very weak that neem oil soap can provide similar benefits.

One major reason is soap is generally on one's skin only a few seconds. If a person uses ingredients in soap that genuinely do have healing properties, how can those ingredients do any good in such a short time? Some of the benefit of medicinal ingredients comes with the skin being exposed over time to the medicine. That doesn't happen with soap.

My usual advice to people is to use special ingredients in leave-on products, so the ingredient has enough time to actually do some good, assuming it does have the ability to provide benefits.

As far as adding an acid to soap ... it's no assumption that the acid will be converted into a salt. It's a proven fact that this is a valid chemical process in soap.
 
@DeeAnna is it possible to make your own “melt and pour” soap base with CP, and THEN add acids to avoid turning them into salts? Same for oils like Shea; could you make a 0% superfat normal soap bar, then remelt it to add 5% Shea?
 
@DeeAnna is it possible to make your own “melt and pour” soap base with CP, and THEN add acids to avoid turning them into salts? Same for oils like Shea; could you make a 0% superfat normal soap bar, then remelt it to add 5% Shea?
Along the same lines, more of the beneficial properties of the additives stay if you make the soap base hot process and then stir in the additives after the cook. By then the lye is used up (or at least most of it) and won’t react with the additives.
 
Along the same lines, more of the beneficial properties of the additives stay if you make the soap base hot process and then stir in the additives after the cook. By then the lye is used up (or at least most of it) and won’t react with the additives.

Soap is a weak alkaline salt. Of all the acids I know of that people add to soap, those acids will react with the soap to form the salt of NaOH and that acid. The fatty acids released from the original soap molecules then increase the superfat. This is pretty much the same outcome as if you add the acid up front when you make the soap.

A weak alkaline salt like soap doesn't want to stay "stuck together" for the ages, and adding acids is not a good thing to do at any time, assuming you want the soap to stay soap.

It's a complicated subject that I can't explain in a TL;DR version. You can get more info in my articles -- Soapy Stuff

@DeeAnna is it possible to make your own “melt and pour” soap base with CP, and THEN add acids to avoid turning them into salts? Same for oils like Shea; could you make a 0% superfat normal soap bar, then remelt it to add 5% Shea?

See my previous paragraph about adding acids to soap. M&P is basically plain old soap with solvents added, so acids will do the same damage to M&P soap as they do to non-M&P soap.

I don't have a clue about how much added fat or non-acidic ingredients you can realistically add to M&P soap. I know manufacturers of commercial M&P bases give instructions about this -- maybe check their info and get a sense of what you can and can't do. I'd think a homemade M&P base would have similar restrictions. Also see Superfat | Soapy Stuff
 
I would create a paste then stick blend with GM MP soap base.
If I understand correctly, you want to make CP (Cold Processed) soap and add Goat Milk Melt & Pour to it? Interesting! And challenging!
Note: CP creates a "batter" not a "paste" which is a term we use for liquid soap that is then diluted.
So at this point I’m thinking about just sticking with my melt n pour recipe. The bars go quicker, however it seems like I have more versatility with additives.
Good thinking! That's always an option if adding MP to CP fails.
adding turmeric powder can make the soap bar a bit scratchy to some. You can avoid this by infusing the turmeric into the olive oil and then straining it.
So true! Good advice! :thumbs:
For this particular soap I’m crafting, I just wanted to create a lye version of it.
I hear you! :D Going from MP to CP requires a bit of a learning curve that you need to undergo before any thing else. I'd suggest
I recommend you start with smaller batches, and try a couple of simple established recipes first. Then graduate on to goat milk and formulating your own.
Good advice! Baby steps. :nodding:
I think 7% SF is high already, honestly. That does make the bar softer, more likely to go rancid, and more likely to create soap scum. If you formulate a nice recipe, you don’t need a high SF at all.
True! 5% SF is the default setting on Soap Calc. It's a good place to start.:thumbs:

@DeeAnna 's Soapy Stuff is a treasure trove of information about all things soapy. It's a good place to gain a better understanding of all the points she made above and go back to for answers about making lye-based soaps when you have more questions.

Also, you can make use of the Search feature in the upper right corner of this page. For example, GM soaps ( and other topics you mentioned) have been discussed many times. It's a good way to glean more information on any given topic.
 
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With all the good advice you've been given above, we are ready to formulate a recipe on SoapCalc.

(I have most of these oils already) I’ve altered the oils & butters to castor (10%), hemp (10%), sunflower (15%), coconut 76 deg (10%) Rice Bran (20%), Cocoa, Shea, & Murumuru Butter (10%, respectively).
We will use these oils & butters but reconfigure them to obtain the best result, i.e., a well balanced (SAT/UNSAT ratio) formula that is both cleansing and conditioning.
I also reformulated the test batches to be 20 oz which would give me about 10-2 oz tester bars of soap. But I will refuormukaye to be 16 so I can make 2-3 testers, some with acids, some without.
20 oz. oils X a factor of 1.37 = 27 oz. soap (approx.)
16 oz. oils X a factor of 1.37 = 22 oz. soap (approx.)

This is just me, but for small batches I use grams instead of ounces to make it easier to work with %'s, and to hopefully end up with whole numbers instead of fractions for better accuracy.

500g = 17.6 oz.
500g oils X a factor of 1.37 = 685g. soap (approx.)
Makes 13-14 samples bars at 50 grams = 1.75 oz. each

I have also switched my Vitamin C to Azleaic acid. Will use between 3-5%
I use antioxidants natural Vitamin E (1,000 IU) (1 capsule PPO) and ROE (33% in jojoba oil) 1/4 -1/2 tsp PPO in every batch I make. In my 20 years of soaping I've never experienced DOS. Whether that's the reason of not, I don't know. :smallshrug:

Off to play around with Soap Calc. To be continued after I have my breakfast. 😄

Just posted the MP Convert to CP in the Recipe Feedback forum for comments there. Please have a look. it could probably use another tweak or two. LOL Any and all comments appreciated. We can address the additives next. ;)
 
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more of the beneficial properties of the additives stay if you make the soap base hot process and then stir in the additives after the cook.
This is pretty much the same outcome as if you add the acid up front when you make the soap.
:thumbs: While I agree, we will have a hard time convincing our HP peers that this is true. :D Believe me, I've tried to no avail. Sigh.
 
Hello everyone!

This is my first time posting on any type of soap thread, so I just want to say I am happy to have found a community to reach out to for help! I am open to all suggestions, thanks in advance!

So, I am reformulating a best selling Turmeric & Vitamin C Beauty Bar (previously a MP recipe). I would like to make a CP soap bar recipe. I have used SoapCalc and my research skills to manually formulate what I will list below. With the additives, I would create a paste then stick blend with GM MP soap base. I would love to be able to use them all however, I understand lye works differently. So, I am very interested in what you have to say about this recipe and where I might consider adopting changes! (Side notes: I am a beginner and lye. This bar is crafted to target hyper pigmentation and dark spots, great for combination skin, provide a overall glow and can be used daily or twice a day on generally normal skin to non-problematic skin.)

Question 1: Must I have Lauric, Myrisitic, Ricinoleic acids in my recipe to create a creamy lather, pretty hard bar that lasts about 1 month to 6 weeks being used twice daily (4-4.5 oz bars)? (FYI: I have 0% of all three of these acids)

Question 2: Some of my "Soap Bar Quality" numbers are not in the range they should be, how important are these numbers for a recipe? How can I possibly adjust these numbers based on the information provided?

Question 3: I would like to only use raw GM instead of water, I've seen on some forums that people simply freeze then add in same amount of GM as would be water? I've also seen others dilute the GM with water (50/50). Will using only GM affect the recipe?

Question 4: I've seen to add 1/2 tbsp to every lb of soap, is this correct? Have you worked with any of these additives, will it affect trace or quality of soap? All additives used at about 5% or lower

64 oz of oils
Hemp (30%)
Sunflower (willing to consider high oleic-30%)
Rice Bran Oil, refined (30%)
Shea Butter (10%-added for hardness [my logic lol])
**After further research I noticed that possibly adding castor oil will add to the 0% lauric acid of my soap)

Water (GM)
16.25 oz

Superfat
7%

Lye Concentration
33%

Additives
Turmeric powder
Kaolin Clay
Vitamin C powder (citric acid)
Niacinamide
Tea Tree E/O
Herb Blend (infused in oils)
As a somewhat newbie to soap making myself, I totally feel your struggle! Honestly, personally, I would scour the internet for a homemade soap bar with qualities I was looking for and I would buy it and see if that would work for me. Then I would study the various ingredient lists to see which oil combinations were being used and go from there. For example, as wonderful as coconut oil is for skin, my skin just isn't a fan so I have to skip it or use it minimally (like less than 20%). My skin loves butters and the rich oils like olive oil, hemp or avocado oil, etc, so I use those to make up most of my recipes, I just research a LOT of other recipes to get a solid idea of what works well together at what percentages. Try googling soap recipes with hemp or Sunflower oil to see how they are being used and and what percentages.
Also, because while I love to learn new things, I hate to learn in baby steps because I feel like I end up having to re-learn or un-learn stuff to get to the end result so I jumped straight in with cold process goat's milk soap. Yes, you can use goat's milk as your total liquid amount. If a recipe calls for 8 oz of water, you can substitute 8 oz of goat's milk. ALSO, it's best to freeze it solid and add your lye to the frozen goat's milk ~ no fumes, minimal heat, no scorching milk ~ win/win/win! It takes some forethought because you should measure your liquid amount and pour it into ice cube trays, freeze, then pop them out and get to work! Just make sure that when you combine your lye solution to your oils that the temperature of each is within 10° of each other 👍🏻 I usually melt my butters first, remove the bowl from the double boiler set up and add my liquid oils to the melted butters, stir for a minute to fully incorporate, and set aside; then start my working on my lye solution so the oils have time to cool. I like to soap at around 100° (combine my lye solution and oils), sometimes it's a little lower.
There are lots of videos on YouTube for making goat's milk soap and I think I watched them all! 😁
 
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