Reducing Lye %

[TashaBird]

I’m switching my lye concentration from %30 to %28 In the soapmakers friend calculator.I kind of understand what that means, but not %100. ()

I’m hoping for less ash, and general stickiness. What else should I expect? Will the batter accelerate faster? I feel like I should understand this better by now.

 

[GemstonePony]

I believe dropping from 30% to 28% lye means you're diluting it with more water, so I would expect less acceleration, probably. Predicting ash is something I'll leave to more experienced soapers.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

Lye concentration is basically the same as the lye:water ratio setting. It is just an indication of the amount of water in your lye solution. The higher the percentage in your lye concentration setting the less water in your lye solution. The higher the lye concentration percentage goes, the closer you are getting to a 1:1 ratio of water to lye.

 

[Marsi]

Tasha, have you ever concentrated the rays of the sun through a magnifying lens?
turning scattered light
into a focused strong (burning) beam?

concentration is the same for lye (concentration)
if lye is more concentrated
the lye is stronger (it also burns more ... ask me how i know )

if you want less ash and general stickiness
increase your lye concentration
going from 30% to 33% will give you a noticeable improvement

some effects of this change will be
- the batter may come to trace a little quicker
- it will be slighter harder to to gel the soap
- there will be less ash
- the soap will warp less during the cure
- soap dough will be less sticky (too concentrated and it becomes crumbly)

 

[Savonette]

I’m switching my lye concentration from %30 to %28 In the soapmakers friend calculator.I kind of understand what that means, but not %100. ()

I’m hoping for less ash, and general stickiness. What else should I expect? Will the batter accelerate faster? I feel like I should understand this better by now.

It’s a brain-burner for me too. Maybe try 33% or the ratio 2:1. Some wise person here gave that advise and I’ve stayed ash-free as long as I don’t use natural colorants. No sticky bars. If I don’t stick to micas, and soap at 85F-ish it goes from batch to b-atch in 60 seconds every time.

 

[DeeAnna]

One way to think about lye concentration percentage is it's the number of grams of dry NaOH in 100 grams of ready-to-use lye solution.

A 30% lye concentration => 30 grams of NaOH in 100 grams of solution. You'd make this lye solution by mixing the 30 grams of NaOH with enough water (70 grams) to make a total of 100 grams of lye solution.

If you wanted to try a 33% lye concentration, that's the same as 33 grams of NaOH in 100 grams of lye solution. You'd mix 33 g NaOH + 67 g water = 100 grams total.

As the lye concentration percent goes UP, there is more NaOH in the lye solution. It's stronger. I think that's the direction you are wanting to go. So as the others have said, go from 30% UP to 33%. Not down to 28% -- that would be a weaker lye solution.

Not sure if this will be helpful to you, but here's a table I made that shows lye concentration and water:lye ratio and gives suggestions for what to use when. Lye conc vs water:lye ratio | Soapy Stuff

I'm no expert at what prevents ash, but what other people say is going UP in lye concentration tends to reduce the amount of ash.

 

[TashaBird]

Thanks all. I think I’ve finally got it this time. I’m dyslexic, and sometimes I mean to do one thing and do the opposite.

 

[TashaBird]

One way to think about lye concentration percentage is it's the number of grams of dry NaOH in 100 grams of ready-to-use lye solution.

A 30% lye concentration => 30 grams of NaOH in 100 grams of solution. You'd make this lye solution by mixing the 30 grams of NaOH with enough water (70 grams) to make a total of 100 grams of lye solution.

If you wanted to try a 33% lye concentration, that's the same as 33 grams of NaOH in 100 grams of lye solution. You'd mix 33 g NaOH + 67 g water = 100 grams total.

As the lye concentration percent goes UP, there is more NaOH in the lye solution. It's stronger. I think that's the direction you are wanting to go. So as the others have said, go from 30% UP to 33%. Not down to 28% -- that would be a weaker lye solution.

Not sure if this will be helpful to you, but here's a table I made that shows lye concentration and water:lye ratio and gives suggestions for what to use when. Lye conc vs water:lye ratio | Soapy Stuff

I'm no expert at what prevents ash, but what other people say is going UP in lye concentration tends to reduce the amount of ash.

THIS is what I needed! Thank you so much.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

THIS is what I needed! Thank you so much.

Sorry to chime in here, but just remember that when you are looking at a recipe in your lye calculators that the amount of lye is not changing no matter what you do with your lye concentration numbers. It is the amount of liquid that is changing.

 

[DeeAnna]

I agree, @SoapDaddy70. No apology needed!

I think that's why "water:lye ratio" clicks better with many soap makers. The NaOH ("lye") in the water:lye ratio always stays equal to 1. It's the water that changes in the ratio.

Lye concentration and water:lye ratio mean exactly the same thing; they just look different. I have a lot of chemistry background, and chemists usually work with concentrations rather than ratios, so that's why I normally talk about lye concentration. It's habit and training. I can give the same info as a water:lye ratio, however.

A lye solution that has a 2:1 water:lye ratio means it has 2 parts water for every 1 part solid NaOH. This means the same thing as a 33% lye concentration.

A water:lye ratio of 3:1 means 3 parts water to every 1 part solid NaOH. That's the same as a 25% lye concentration.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

I agree, @SoapDaddy70. No apology needed!

I think that's why "water:lye ratio" clicks better with many soap makers. The NaOH ("lye") in the water:lye ratio always stays equal to 1. It's the water that changes in the ratio.

Lye concentration and water:lye ratio mean exactly the same thing; they just look different. I have a lot of chemistry background, and chemists usually work with concentrations rather than ratios, so that's why I normally talk about lye concentration. It's habit and training. I can give the same info as a water:lye ratio, however.

A lye solution that has a 2:1 water:lye ratio means it has 2 parts water for every 1 part solid NaOH. This means the same thing as a 33% lye concentration.

A water:lye ratio of 3:1 means 3 parts water to every 1 part solid NaOH. That's the same as a 25% lye concentration.

In a twisted kind of way I enjoy the math aspect to a lot of soap making stuff. There is that cliche statement when students complain about math and say "why should I learn this, we are never going to use this in real life" This is a perfect example of why this kind of basic math should always be taught in school!

 

[gardengeek]

@DeeAnna Unlike most, I get confused by ratios! Once you started describing what the equivalent percentages are to the ratio my head started to tingle. Nerves? Anxiety? Obviously I failed that section in math class. In fact, I recently told my 6th grader granddaughter that when they start doing ratios in class maybe she should share her schoolwork with me. I think it might help if I went all the way back to that grade level?!

Concentration is just more sensical to me so I can rationalize my way thru it if I get confused. If something is 'more' concentrated (higher lye concentration %) then it has 'more' of that ingredient. Since it's 'lye' concentration lye is the ingredient that there's more of, it's not 'water' concentration. So if there's more lye, then there's less water. That's just my rationalization, by no means will my way of thinking work for everyone (or anyone for that matter). Maybe this is an over simplification but I always try to follow the KISS rule.

Speaking of anxiety, my brain just completely shuts down when people start talking about water discounts!

 

[DeeAnna]

I can't relate to the "full water" and "water discount" thing either. There are a few ideas in the handcrafted soap making world that really don't have any scientific basis but people don't seem to be able to let go of them. These two are at the top of the list.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Using lye at 28% concentration will increase the likelihood of glycerin rivers too. I increased mine from 28% to 30% after my first 8 months of soaping.

 

[linne1gi]

Using lye at 28% concentration will increase the likelihood of glycerin rivers too. I used mine from 28% to 30% after my first 8 months of soaping.

Anything less than a 33% lye solution (2:1 ratio) gives me glycerin rivers.

 

[Carly B]

I always use a 2:1 ratio. I make a master batch, and as SoapDaddy70 says, no matter what your ratio, the amount of lye stays the same. By masterbatching at 2:1, I have some "wiggle room" to add additional water if I decide I want to add some salt or sugar and need to dissolve it.

For example, in a 1 lb basic recipe, 75% lard and 25% CO, on a 2:1 I would need 4.61 oz of water to 2.31 oz of lye.
If I use the 38% which is the SoapCalc default, it calls for 6.08 oz of water to 2.31 oz of lye.

So that leaves me about 1.47 oz (6.08 - 4.61) to use to dissolve any salt or sugar if I want to.

 

[linne1gi]

I always use a 2:1 ratio. I make a master batch, and as SoapDaddy70 says, no matter what your ratio, the amount of lye stays the same. By masterbatching at 2:1, I have some "wiggle room" to add additional water if I decide I want to add some salt or sugar and need to dissolve it.

For example, in a 1 lb basic recipe, 75% lard and 25% CO, on a 2:1 I would need 4.61 oz of water to 2.31 oz of lye.
If I use the 38% which is the SoapCalc default, it calls for 6.08 oz of water to 2.31 oz of lye.

So that leaves me about 1.47 oz (6.08 - 4.61) to use to dissolve any salt or sugar if I want to.

I masterbatch my lye also. I MB at a 1:1 ratio. So if using your example I need 2.31 ounces of lye - I would use 4.62 ounces of MB lye solution (that is 2.31 lye + 2.31 water) and I have an extra 2.31 of water to dissolve any sugar or anything else I want. The default in SoapCalc was originally intended for HP soap where a lot of moisture is lost during the cook - you just don't need that much water in CP soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I always use a 2:1 ratio. If I use the 38% which is the SoapCalc default, it calls for 6.08 oz of water to 2.31 oz of lye. ..."

@Carly B -- Just a gentle caution about the numbers you're using. I'm almost certain the 38% you mention is "water as % of oils", not lye concentration. The 2:1 ratio is the lye:water ratio and that is the same as a 33% lye concentration.

So in a way you're comparing apples (33% lye concentration) to oranges (38% water as % of oils). They aren't mathematically the same. A more direct comparison would be to compare the 33% lye conc (or a 2:1 water:lye ratio) with a 28% lye conc (aka 2.6 water:lye ratio). A 28% lye concentration is one of the more common definitions for a "full water" soap. That is going to give you a range of water that will apply to any kind of soap you might make.

If you make more than one recipe, you might find it interesting to compare the lye concentration of the various recipes when you keep the "water as % of oils" set to the default 38%. You'll learn the lye conc will vary, sometimes by quite a lot from recipe to recipe even though "water as % of oils" doesn't change from 38%.

Your method will work well enough if you use the same recipe or fairly similar recipes, but it can get confusing and even contradictory if you make recipes that are quite different. For that reason, it might be best in the long run to avoid mixing lye concentration numbers with "water as % of oils" numbers. Use one or the other (my vote is for lye concentration! ) but not both.

 

[Carly B]

"...I always use a 2:1 ratio. If I use the 38% which is the SoapCalc default, it calls for 6.08 oz of water to 2.31 oz of lye. ..."

@Carly B -- Just a gentle caution about the numbers you're using. I'm almost certain the 38% you mention is "water as % of oils", not lye concentration. The 2:1 ratio is the lye:water ratio and that is the same as a 33% lye concentration.

So in a way you're comparing apples (33% lye concentration) to oranges (38% water as % of oils). They aren't mathematically the same. A more direct comparison would be to compare the 33% lye conc (or a 2:1 water:lye ratio) with a 28% lye conc (aka 2.6 water:lye ratio). A 28% lye concentration is one of the more common definitions for a "full water" soap. That is going to give you a range of water that will apply to any kind of soap you might make.

If you make more than one recipe, you might find it interesting to compare the lye concentration of the various recipes when you keep the "water as % of oils" set to the default 38%. You'll learn the lye conc will vary, sometimes by quite a lot from recipe to recipe even though "water as % of oils" doesn't change from 38%.

Your method will work well enough if you use the same recipe or fairly similar recipes, but it can get confusing and even contradictory if you make recipes that are quite different. For that reason, it might be best in the long run to avoid mixing lye concentration numbers with "water as % of oils" numbers. Use one or the other (my vote is for lye concentration! ) but not both.

Thank you, DeeAnna. You are absolutely correct. I said 38% because that's the number that shows up as a default for Water as a % of Oils in the same column on SoapCalc as lye/water ratio, so you need to select one. I didn't mean to infer that was the lye/water percentage, it was more of a "if you pick the one soap calc defaults to, you get this. If you do 2:1 water/lye, you get that. . When you calculate the recipes, the actual percentage shows up in the printout, but as I said, 2:1 is what I use.

 

[linne1gi]

Thank you, DeeAnna. You are absolutely correct. I said 38% because that's the number that shows up as a default for Water as a % of Oils in the same column on SoapCalc as lye/water ratio, so you need to select one. I didn't mean to infer that was the lye/water percentage, it was more of a "if you pick the one soap calc defaults to, you get this. If you do 2:1 water/lye, you get that. . When you calculate the recipes, the actual percentage shows up in the printout, but as I said, 2:1 is what I use.

You said you use 2:1 master batch. So, for example if you need 100 grams of lye, you would measure out 300 grams of MB lye solution. That equals, with your master batch 200 grams of water & 100 grams of lye. If you are using a 33% lye solution, you are already there and can not add additional water, so I don’t understand. You are obviously using more water than a 2:1 lye solution in your soap making.