Rancid soap experiment

[Jen74]

Hello everyone.

I posted a couple weeks back about how my soap keeps going rancid 2 weeks into curing for some odd reason. I use palm oil, palm kernel oil, distilled water, and Sodium HYdroxide( lye). Well I could not figure out what is causing it to go rancid while it is curing. I did a test and made a batch of hot process soap and the cold process soap using the same ingredients and placing them both in the same area to cure. I am at two weeks now and the hot process seems to be okay so far, yet my cold process is already starting to get that distictive rancid smell again. I am perplexed. I mean I used the same exact ingredients using the same exact oils and everything and also curing them in the same area. Why would the hot process be okay, yet the cold process be going rancid?? I even used the same materials to make them. Does cold process soap have a higher chance of going rancid versus hot process?? I am literally confused. I even used the same exact amount of everything. Any ideas??

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I have never made HP soap so I can't speak to that. I make all CP soap and I have never had a bar go rancid during the curing phase. There is definitely a factor that is missing. It may be something that you did but don't realize that it is effecting your CP soap recipe.

You can try adding some EDTA. Some say that will help prevent early rancidity in lard soaps and it might work for non lard recipes.

Something else you might try is, making your soap at some one else's house. I know this sounds crazy but Sherlock Holmes said, "once you rule out the probable, what ever is left, no matter how improbable, must be it"

That's the only thing you have left because I and I'm sure others will be just as stumped as you are.

Refresh our memory by telling us what you think, you have ruled out.

 

[Jen74]

I have never made HP soap so I can't speak to that. I make all CP soap and I have never had a bar go rancid during the curing phase. There is definitely a factor that is missing. It may be something that you did but don't realize that it is effecting your CP soap recipe.

You can try adding some EDTA. Some say that will help prevent early rancidity in lard soaps and it might work for non lard recipes.

Something else you might try is, making your soap at some one else's house. I know this sounds crazy but Sherlock Holmes said, "once you rule out the probable, what ever is left, no matter how improbable, must be it"

That's the only thing you have left because I and I'm sure others will be just as stumped as you are.

Refresh our memory by telling us what you think, you have ruled out.

I have tried using different brands of oils, stopped using any stainless steel and only use silicone for stirring. I mean I have tried a lot. The odd thing is that when I made them in the winter, I had no issues. This made me think it had something to do with the humidity? I mean we always run the AC though in the house during the summer and it does not feel super humid in here. The highest it is would be 53% humidity on our gauge. During the winter our humidity level is always much lower like 30% and below most days. I mean that is the only thing I can think of. However, why did my HP soap do okay so far, but not the cold one which I made using the same exact ingredients and used the same utensils as well. This is mind boggling for sure. Not sure who's house I could make the soap at Lol! I will look into that. This is just odd... What is EDTA? I worry as I am super chemical sensitive and hate adding extra additives to my soap.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

For an explanation of the EDTA I recommend googling "EDTA in soap" you will get a better explanation than what I can give you.

I doubt if the humidity is the culprit but it could be. The reason why I mentioned using someone else's house is because the humidity in your house could be creating mold somewhere in your house and you would not even know it. If you have mold spores floating around, they could be contaminating every thing that you make. The reason why the HP and the soap you make during the winter is not going rancid, could be because the humidity is to low for the mold to survive and the heat from the HP is killing it during the process.

I know this sounds crazy but remember my quote from above.

 

[Jen74]

For an explanation of the EDTA I recommend googling "EDTA in soap" you will get a better explanation than what I can give you.

I doubt if the humidity is the culprit but it could be. The reason why I mentioned using someone else's house is because the humidity in your house could be creating mold somewhere in your house and you would not even know it. If you have mold spores floating around, they could be contaminating every thing that you make. The reason why the HP and the soap you make during the winter is not going rancid, could be because the humidity is to low for the mold to survive and the heat from the HP is killing it during the process.

I know this sounds crazy but remember my quote from above.

Hmm, that is interesting, thanks for bringing this up. Definitely something to think about. It is definitely frustrating for sure..

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I am honestly scraping the bottom of the barrel to help you.

Might I suggest something else? Take some pictures of all the utensils and pots you are using, plus the area that you are working on and post them. I don't know if that would help anyone diagnose the problem but it can't hurt.

I really want to help you and it's making me mad because I can't lol.

 

[Jen74]

I am honestly scraping the bottom of the barrel to help you.

Might I suggest something else? Take some pictures of all the utensils and pots you are using, plus the area that you are working on and post them. I don't know if that would help anyone diagnose the problem but it can't hurt.

I really want to help you and it's making me mad because I can't lol.

Thank you so much!! I will do that with posting pictures of all I use to make the soap. I even tried switching that up a couple times and still ended up with this issue. Thanks so much for all your help, I really do appreciate it. Leave it to me to have a mysterious problem that no one can figure out Lol!!!

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Your welcome. I hope you figure it out but don't hesitate to pm me if you have any questions.

 

[TheGecko]

I am perplexed. I mean I used the same exact ingredients using the same exact oils and everything and also curing them in the same area. Why would the hot process be okay, yet the cold process be going rancid??

Heat. Heat kills bacteria and germs and all sorts of nasty things. I'm guessing HP is killing off whatever bad stuff is in one of your oils right away, but in CP, your soap isn't getting hot enough to do the same. You oils can go bad before you smell or see it. As much as I love to save money buying in bulk, I also don't buy more than I can use within three to six months depending on the shelf life (which I half to begin with).

If it were me, I would make up some small batches of soap...maybe 8 oz of oils and switch out one oil in each batch. I use 6 oils/butters, so I would make 6 batches and use cavity molds. Use a different colorant for each batch so you can track which batch is which.

 

[Astro]

Do you always use the same recipe - could it be a brand of oil you are using?

 

[Dawni]

I HP 90% of the time so I don't know what could be different since I've not much experience with CP.

I will tell you however that the two soaps I've tried both CP and HP with the same recipe was a Castile.... And I got orange (not)spots first in the HP, but it got worse quicker in the CP one. I have no idea why lol but here is that thread if you wanna see what others have said. Not sure it helps you any though......

I live in constant high humidity (like upwards of 75% everyday lol) and my usual problem is sweating, not so much DOS.

I know this might be redundant. But are your oils new(ish)? How about the water... Is it at the very least filtered, if not distilled?

Maybe before soaping somewhere else, soap with different everything - mold, spatulas, containers, etc. n see if you're getting rancid soap.

How about are they?? Do they smell like old crayons?

 

[purely soaps]

I have tried using different brands of oils, stopped using any stainless steel and only use silicone for stirring. I mean I have tried a lot. The odd thing is that when I made them in the winter, I had no issues. This made me think it had something to do with the humidity? I mean we always run the AC though in the house during the summer and it does not feel super humid in here. The highest it is would be 53% humidity on our gauge. During the winter our humidity level is always much lower like 30% and below most days. I mean that is the only thing I can think of. However, why did my HP soap do okay so far, but not the cold one which I made using the same exact ingredients and used the same utensils as well. This is mind boggling for sure. Not sure who's house I could make the soap at Lol! I will look into that. This is just odd... What is EDTA? I worry as I am super chemical sensitive and hate adding extra additives to my soap.

Have u thought of making your cold process soap go through gel phase to really heat it up ? That way, if it is something in your oils causing the rancid to show up , the heat would destroy it I m thinking...