Quick question about master batching lye

[gigisiguenza]

I deleted my post, Gigi. I don't think I'm the right person to help you with this problem. I'm sorry for the confusion.

DeeAnna - I think I got it tho! LOL. Only question I had left was in your post you listed "100/33 or 3.3333". When I divide 100 by 33, it is 3.0303, not 3.3333. Which is the correct one to use?

Tyvm for trying to help me grasp this, really do appreciate it.

 

[gigisiguenza]

Gigi, you just mix up a regular batch of 33% lye solution, like you would normally for each batch, just a much bigger amount (enough to safely in/out of your master batch container.) So when you go to use it, you don't have to add any extra water - or any water at all - just put it straight into your oils (thus avoiding the math!)

Does that make sense? The 50/50 is good for people who MB and want to be able to use it in batches that will have different lye concentrations ratios, ie; they might use 30% one time for a slower tracing mix, 33% for the medium tracing mix the next time, 38% for a faster one the next time. That ratio lets them do the math on changing the water addition in each one more easily. They will almost always have a calculation to do b/c *no one* uses lye at 50% (or almost no one), it is just too high.

I almost always use 33% so keeping the math simple is not important, doing this would let me mix up a big batch of my regular mix of lye and water and pour it straight in w/o having to mix/wait each time.

Ally - ahhh ok I get what you're saying now

This raises a question tho...

1) when you run your recipe through soapcalc, how do you determine how much to use? I know I can set the soapcalc to concentration strength by entering 33 in the appropriate box. If the amount indicated in soapcalc (when I click calculate), is that the amount of the 33% solution I need to use?

2) my question with DeeAnna was how to do what you mentioned above - once create a specific solution strength for the MB, how to determine the amount MB solution needed and the amount of additional water to add to that MB amt to have the correct amount for the recipe if you run it through soapcalc in default mode. It was the way she explained the formula that I didn't get. I worked it out on paper and created a formula, so now it makes sense, but I am still a wee bit foggy regarding one of the numbers she referenced.

 

[not_ally]

1) when you run your recipe through soapcalc, how do you determine how much to use? I know I can set the soapcalc to concentration strength by entering 33 in the appropriate box. If the amount indicated in soapcalc (when I click calculate), is that the amount of the 33% solution I need to use?

Yes, exactly. Just make sure you are using the "lye concentration" option rather than the water/lye or water/oil ones. That will be amount of the MB solution you need, the advantage of MB'ing at your normal ratio is that you just get to grab your jug, measure it out, and pour it in rather than mixing lye, water, and waiting for it to cool. Also, you don't have to figure out formulas, since you already have a big jug of 33% lye liquid standing by and the calc. will tell you how much of it to use to saponify that particular batch size/mix of oils.

 

[gigisiguenza]

Yes, exactly. Just make sure you are using the "lye concentration" option rather than the water/lye or water/oil ones. That will be amount of the MB solution you need, the advantage of MB'ing at your normal ratio is that you just get to grab your jug, measure it out, and pour it in rather than mixing lye, water, and waiting for it to cool. Also, you don't have to figure out formulas, since you already have a big jug of 33% lye liquid standing by and the calc. will tell you how much of it to use.

Ally - that might just be the solution I'm looking for. I don't mind having to do the math for the stronger 50% solution, but it would be really nice to just be able to grab and pour. I can deal with the medium trace time that might result from the slightly stronger than actually called for solution. If it becomes an issue on a specific recipe, then I'll know I need to go the individual lye batch route for that particular recipe.

Tyvm for the help

 

[not_ally]

Gigi, just to make sure, if your MB is a 33% lye solution ratio, and you have typed 33% *into* the lye concentration box, what the calc. will give you *is* the called-for amount. Ie; it shouldn't create an issue unless that % is too high or low for you w/r/t how you want that soap to behave (makes it trace too quickly or slowly, mottles, or presents some other issue associated w/lye concentration/amount of water.)

If there is an issue like that, you would want to take a stab at a higher/lower concentration, put that into the calc., then *that* would be the called-for amount, and you would mix that seperately rather than using your MB liquid. I hope this makes sense, I am not good at talking about math-related things, the whole right-brain dominant thing kicks in.

 

[gigisiguenza]

Gigi, just to make sure, if your MB is a 33% lye solution ratio, and you have typed 33% *into* the lye concentration box, what the calc. will give you *is* the called-for amount. Ie; it shouldn't create an issue unless that % is too high or low for you w/r/t how you want that soap to behave (makes it trace too quickly or slowly, mottles, or presents some other issue associated w/lye concentration/amount of water.)

If there is an issue like that, you would want to take a stab at a higher/lower concentration, put that into the calc., then *that* would be the called-for amount, and you would mix that seperately rather than using your MB liquid. I hope this makes sense, I am not good at talking about math-related things, the whole right-brain dominant thing kicks in.

Ally - I'm not a huge fan of elaborate math either LOL. And yes, I understood what you were saying Ty

 

[DeeAnna]

A solution that is 1 part lye to 2 parts water is actually 33.33333333% lye concentration if you say it as a percentage.

The ratio of 100/33 (in my deleted post) is more correctly written 100/33.3333333 which equals 3.333333. I was trying to simplify too much and ended up making it more complicated than it really is.

I'm returning to lurk mode ... let's go back to the others' much better explanations....

 

[not_ally]

D, you should never lurk, we all depend on you too much. Sometimes I think seriously right-brained people like me find really simple explanations better because the math is literally like a brick wall that stops us from going forward. Although yours have never stopped me, they are just enough of a mix of right/left that they kind of inspire me to keep trudging on, which is a good and satisfying/rewarding thing, in the end. I am really good at understanding certain other things v. quickly, but when I finally understand something that is hard for me, it makes me feel so much smarter and better, which is a little sad.

You know, I am good at biology related stuff, sometimes even chemistry, it is just math. Then, the wall. That is what makes me nervous about trying to explain this stuff, I am afraid that I am doing it wrong and causing someone else to make mistakes.

 

[cmzaha]

Gigi, just to make sure, if your MB is a 33% lye solution ratio, and you have typed 33% *into* the lye concentration box, what the calc. will give you *is* the called-for amount. Ie; it shouldn't create an issue unless that % is too high or low for you w/r/t how you want that soap to behave (makes it trace too quickly or slowly, mottles, or presents some other issue associated w/lye concentration/amount of water.)

If there is an issue like that, you would want to take a stab at a higher/lower concentration, put that into the calc., then *that* would be the called-for amount, and you would mix that seperately rather than using your MB liquid. I hope this makes sense, I am not good at talking about math-related things, the whole right-brain dominant thing kicks in.

My brain might not be working today, or maybe I am just being a dummy. You mentioned in soap calc to put in 33% Lye concentration box to get the correct number for the 33% lye solution. I do assume you are now adding the liquid number + the lye requirement together to come up with your total lye solution needed? 50/50 is sooooo easy to use

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

^^^^^ very much this. I would think that a 33% solution makes the maths in to a nightmare! But adding the lye weight to the water weight with the strength setting at 33% should well do it. I just would have to check the numbers each and every time.

 

[not_ally]

Ugh, I knew I was going to explain it wrong. What I was planning to do - and trying to explain - was just mixing up a big old jug of 33% lye concentration solution to use in every batch, as is, without having to use it for a different lye concentration batch at some later point.

If I chose to use a different concentration for another batch, I would just use a calc to figure out the numbers on the new concentration and not use the existing MB/try to do the additional calculation and add water to make it work, I would just make a seperate small individual batch of lye liquid that I would know - from the calc - that would work.

I know that is kind of silly, it is more work than using the MB liquid and doing the math, but I HATE MATH!! And am really bad at it. To the extent that I would rather make a whole new little batch of lye liquid that requires a different lye concentration.

I really hope this makes sense, I am a bit despairing about my ability to ever properly describe this stuff.

 

[cmzaha]

Ugh, I knew I was going to explain it wrong. What I was planning to do - and trying to explain - was just mixing up a big old jug of 33% lye concentration solution to use in every batch, as is, without having to use it for a different lye concentration batch at some later point.

If I chose to use a different concentration for another batch, I would just use a calc to figure out the numbers on the new concentration and not use the existing MB/try to do the additional calculation and add water to make it work, I would just make a seperate small individual batch of lye liquid that I would know - from the calc - that would work.

I know that is kind of silly, it is more work than using the MB liquid and doing the math, but I HATE MATH!! And am really bad at it. To the extent that I would rather make a whole new little batch of lye liquid that requires a different lye concentration.

I really hope this makes sense, I am a bit despairing about my ability to ever properly describe this stuff.

Sorry I am just not wrapping the brain around this. The only way I find the 33% lye solution works in soap calc is to add the lye amount and liquid amount to get the total needed. How do you do it. That is how I get the numbers to work and match what the Sage calculator comes up with and Soapmaker

 

[IrishLass]

Carolyn- that is how I would do it, too, if I worked from a 33% master-batch solution. I would just type 33% in the lye-concentration box on SoapCalc, add the weights of the lye and water together that it gives me on the view/print page, and whatever sum I ended up with would be how much of my master-batch 33% solution I would weigh out for my batch.

However, if you are working from a 33% master-batch and you decide you want to make a batch of soap using a different lye concentration, then my best advice would be to tell you get DeeAnna on the hotline......or else don't work from a 33% solution master-batch. lol I'm afraid my head is not savvy enough to grasp the math it would take to try and figure out how to convert 33% over to a different concentration. That's why I work from a 50% master-batch...the math for converting that over to a different concentration is as simple as a pimple as they say.


IrishLass

 

[cmzaha]

Carolyn- that is how I would do it, too, if I worked from a 33% master-batch solution. I would just type 33% in the lye-concentration box on SoapCalc, add the weights of the lye and water together that it gives me on the view/print page, and whatever sum I ended up with would be how much of my master-batch 33% solution I would weigh out for my batch.

However, if you are working from a 33% master-batch and you decide you want to make a batch of soap using a different lye concentration, then my best advice would be to tell you get DeeAnna on the hotline......or else don't work from a 33% solution master-batch. lol I'm afraid my head is not savvy enough to grasp the math it would take to try and figure out how to convert 33% over to a different concentration. That's why I work from a 50% master-batch...the math for converting that over to a different concentration is as simple as a pimple as they say.


IrishLass

Yes, you would do it like I would. From reading a previous post it was looking like not_ally was using the lye figure as her as her total liquid. But of course I could have easily read it wrong. My 50/50 is so easy to use

 

[not_ally]

OMG, you are right. I just skipped the adding the water part to get to the regular 33% mix, I just assumed it which was um, not bright on my part. So Gigi, I hope Carolyn, IL and EG made it clearer than I did? I am going to have to never answer math posts, sorry.

ETA: I am still embarrassed, my cheeks are burning a little.

 

[gigisiguenza]

OMG, you are right. I just skipped the adding the water part to get to the regular 33% mix, I just assumed it which was um, not bright on my part. So Gigi, I hope Carolyn, IL and EG made it clearer than I did? I am going to have to never answer math posts, sorry.

ETA: I am still embarrassed, my cheeks are burning a little.

LOL Ally you're fine lady
And believe it or not I did get the formula DeeAnna was explaining. Wrote it down and practiced it even. When I get home from work later I'll post it, it's not hard once it's a formula

 

[gigisiguenza]

Tyvm everyone for trying so hard to help me. You all rock

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

So now we are all comfortable with the maths (and yes, there is an S on the end ) I have a question about bottles again - I have some distilled water bottles that are "2's" - I know this is okay for mixing in, but how would we feel about long term storage? As I have them anyway (I would be buying distilled water) and it does away with the chore of getting the laundry bottle clean enough for use I was thinking they would be good - plus the size is quite handy and even with my extended family trying to remember the laundry bottles, we aren't getting through it as quickly as would be needed for a handy supply.

What are your thoughts, oh collective of soaper-troopers?

 

[shunt2011]

So now we are all comfortable with the maths (and yes, there is an S on the end ) I have a question about bottles again - I have some distilled water bottles that are "2's" - I know this is okay for mixing in, but how would we feel about long term storage? As I have them anyway (I would be buying distilled water) and it does away with the chore of getting the laundry bottle clean enough for use I was thinking they would be good - plus the size is quite handy and even with my extended family trying to remember the laundry bottles, we aren't getting through it as quickly as would be needed for a handy supply.

What are your thoughts, oh collective of soaper-troopers?

I'm curious as well as someone just recently stated they mix their lye in the lye bottles from ED. They are #2 but I'm too wondering if they would work to store it. Curious minds want to know..

 

[topofmurrayhill]

So now we are all comfortable with the maths (and yes, there is an S on the end ) I have a question about bottles again - I have some distilled water bottles that are "2's" - I know this is okay for mixing in, but how would we feel about long term storage? As I have them anyway (I would be buying distilled water) and it does away with the chore of getting the laundry bottle clean enough for use I was thinking they would be good - plus the size is quite handy and even with my extended family trying to remember the laundry bottles, we aren't getting through it as quickly as would be needed for a handy supply.

What are your thoughts, oh collective of soaper-troopers?

When you say distilled water, I think of the gallon jugs I get at the supermarket. Even though they are okay in terms of the plastic, the ones I get seem rather thin-walled. I would lean towards something sturdier. Also, mine don't have secure lids. But maybe your distilled water bottles are better than mine.