Questions regarding Hot processed soap-making

Soapmaking Forum

Help Support Soapmaking Forum:

Alexandru

New Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Exeter, UK
Dear everybody,
I am very new to soap-making, in the way that, although I desired much to make my own soap since quite a long time, it is only now that I had the courage to do it. I've ordered nearly all the things that I need, from tools to the ingredients (Palm Oil, Coconut oil, Castor Oil, Olive Oil, lye and all others). I would have some questions regarding the Hot Processed soap-making, since I've seen that on this forum most of the issues discussed are regarding the Cold Processed one, that I would not like because of the big waiting time of 4-6 weeks after, which I could not bear :). If these questions have been already put before, please forgive me, I would appreciate if you would give me at least the place where I could find them answered. Thank you a lot and wish you happy soaping in all the ways! Alex.
So here I write my questions:

1. In the case of Hot Processed Soap, should I keep the mixture of oils and lye-water solution boiling on the stove after Trace, until it reaches and finishes the saponification process? How long would that be and at what temperature should I keep the mixture constantly?
I am asking this because, in a short YouTube film, the soap-maker pours the mixture in the mould immediately after Trace, without waiting for separation and saponification ([ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obSwRc-uuv8&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obSwRc-u ... re=related[/ame]). In this case I assume that the soap would need at least 4 weeks to dry for saponification to be complete?

2. Actually when can I pour the composition in the mould? Because if I leave the mixture too much time after saponification, then it would cool and become quite hard to put it in a mould and the final aspect would be wrong.

3. After Trace, while the mixture is still on the stove, what do I do for it not to raise and boil until it might reach a reaction that would make it "jump" out of the pot? This is what I read on a web-site (http://allcrafts.tripod.com/index.html), that by not stirring continually and keeping the mixture at an exact temperature until saponification, it would just result in strong reactions. Quote from that web-site: "This is separation. See the curds of soap, resting on the bottom of the pot, covered by the oil. Keep stirring ALL the time. The first time I did this, the heat was too high, and I didn't know enough to stir all the time. Result: Volcanoes of caustic mix jumping higher than my head, and etching of the base of the pot by the caustic solution. NOT something you want to have happen to you. So stir. ALL the time the pot is on the heat, eh."

4. I assume I can use a pot directly on the stove to make soap? Because I do not have a Crockpot and I would not like to use one in making soap.

5. Regarding Hot Processed making soap, does it still needs 4 weeks to dry and complete the saponification process? Opinions are not the same, with some saying that it still needs 4 weeks if not to saponify then at least to harden and be more long-lasting, while others saying that only the Cold processed soap needs the 4 weeks to saponify, while you can immediately use the Hot Processed made soap.

6. Regarding the fragrances/essences used to give smell to the soap, like Lavender or Vanilla etc, can they be added only at the end, after the whole process is done? Because I've read that if I add them before saponification, then there is the risk of them evaporating because of the heat.

7. Do I need at any time to boil/cook the whole mixture at a certain set of temperatures? Because, although I have a food-measuring thermometer, it would still be hard to keep everything only at a specific temperature and not overpass with one Celsius degree, since any mixture's temperature that is on the stove, goes either up or down, it can't stay static.

8. Finally, regarding the recipe that I would like to use, I've studied various recipes, and also the oils properties, therefore I created a recipe that I would like, using the soap-calculator on the web-site www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp. Can you give me an advice, if the recipe I made is balanced and safe regarding the lye content and any other issue? And, for example, if I want to add Coconut milk and honey, should I reduce the water quantity, or they would just be above it and the soap would then become to greasy?

The recipe would be (I hope it will show it as I arranged it in the page, if not, there are the columns titles that show you what the numbers are about, for example an oil is in grams, ounces etc):

Total oil weight 1480
Water as percent of oil weight 38 %
Super Fat/Discount 5 %
Lye Concentration 26.69 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.747:1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 38 : 62
Iodine 61
INS 145
Fragrance Ratio 50
Fragrance Weight 74 Gm

Ingredient Pounds Ounces Grams
Water 1.24 19.838 562.4
Lye - NaOH 0.451 7.222 204.75

# √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams
1 Olive Oil pomace 45 1.468 23.492 666
2 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 20 0.653 10.441 296
3 Palm Oil 20 0.653 10.441 296
4 Lard, Pig Tallow 8 0.261 4.176 118.4
5 Castor Oil 7 0.228 3.654 103.6
Totals 100 3.263 52.206 1480

Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 37
Cleansing 12 - 22 14
Conditioning 44 - 69 60
Bubbly 14 - 46 20
Creamy 16 - 48 29
Iodine 41 - 70 61
INS 136 - 165 145

Lauric 10
Myristic 4
Palmitic 19
Stearic 4
Ricinoleic 6
Oleic 44
Linoleic 9
Linolenic 1

THANK YOU for answering!
 

Fragola

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
831
Reaction score
11
1. There are more degrees of processing between CP and HP. If you pour at trace, that's CP.

If you boil until saponification is done (when it stops zapping), that's HP. That takes around 1-2 hours or more or less, depending on temperature and other factors.

If you stir continuously, separation may not happen.

2. Soap is poured while hot. It should have a mashed potato consistency.

3. To avoid volcanoes, keep it below boiling point (100 celsius).

4. Not your best choice. But somebody with excellent kitchen skills is able to keep a pot on low flame, and below boiling. My suggestion is to buy a double boiler (pot with a double wall). Or look into oven processing instead of basic HP.

5. I am using mine couple of days later. Depends on the recipe and how much water is left in the soap when you pour it.

6. Yes, they are added at a lower temeprature. I try to stay as low as possible, but each fragrance has a different "flash point".
 

carebear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
7,714
Reaction score
73
Flashing off is not the same as flash point.

The flash point is the temperature at which a material's fumes will ignite when exposed to a flame.

You are probably looking for the evaporation temperature or the boiling point of the material, since it's unlikely you will be torching the material.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
145
Reaction score
5
Location
Florida
If the consistency of the soap at pour-time is like mashed potatoes, how do you incorporate fragrances into that mass? If the temp of the mass is 180 degrees coming off the double boiler, by the time the temperature drops to, say, 140 degrees, won't you have a solid-ish mass that defies FO/EO incorporation?
 

Fragola

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
831
Reaction score
11
I've got quite a headache right now, I know there are few related terms which are sometimes confused: smoke point, boiling point, autoignition temperature.

My guideline is to stay as low as possible.

If the consistency of the soap at pour-time is like mashed potatoes, how do you incorporate fragrances into that mass?
I see that you like your mashed potatoes more stiff.

That's perfectly ok, but to answer this question, watch a video on youtube, where you'll see exactly how it's supposed to look.

Probably my mistake, I should have posted the mashed potato recipe first :p The recipe which calls for butter and milk is fluid enough to make them pourable.


If the temp of the mass is 180 degrees coming off the double boiler, by the time the temperature drops to, say, 140 degrees, won't you have a solid-ish mass that defies FO/EO incorporation?

Haven't measured temps, but maybe more towards the 160 ? I try to work as quickly as possible - once it's in the mold, there's a another 10-20 degree temperature drop.
 

IrishLass

Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
17,862
Reaction score
11,666
Location
Right here, silly!
Hello and welcome, Alex!


Alexandru said:
1. In the case of Hot Processed Soap, should I keep the mixture of oils and lye-water solution boiling on the stove after Trace, until it reaches and finishes the saponification process? How long would that be and at what temperature should I keep the mixture constantly?

I do my HP in the oven in a big, stainless steel soup pot w/cover, and I don't boil it. I basically bring my soap to trace in the pot on my kitchen counter, place the pot (covered) in my preheated 170 degreesF (76 degressC) oven, and heat, peeking in every 15 to 20 minutes to see how things are progressing.

When my batter looks like it has reached the gel stage, I stir it and take a small bit out with my gloved hand to test for zap, which would indicate the presense of unreacted lye. To do this, I run the small dab of soap under cold water, rub it between 2 fingers and place the lather to the tip on my tongue. If it zaps, I cook for 10 more minutes and test again. I repeat as often as necessary until all zapping stops.

Once the soap has ceased zapping, I then add any scents or colorants and then mold. The soap at this stage is hot, soft, and pliable- very much in consistency to vaseline or mashed potatoes.


Alexandru said:
I am asking this because, in a short YouTube film, the soap-maker pours the mixture in the mould immediately after Trace, without waiting for separation and saponification (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obSwRc-u ... re=related). In this case I assume that the soap would need at least 4 weeks to dry for saponification to be complete?

The soap in this video is made via cold process, not hot process.

Alexandru said:
2. Actually when can I pour the composition in the mould? Because if I leave the mixture too much time after saponification, then it would cool and become quite hard to put it in a mould and the final aspect would be wrong.

After it stops zapping and when all you additives that you are going to add are mixed in.

Alexandru said:
3. After Trace, while the mixture is still on the stove, what do I do for it not to raise and boil until it might reach a reaction that would make it "jump" out of the pot? This is what I read on a web-site (http://allcrafts.tripod.com/index.html), that by not stirring continually and keeping the mixture at an exact temperature until saponification, it would just result in strong reactions. Quote from that web-site: "This is separation. See the curds of soap, resting on the bottom of the pot, covered by the oil. Keep stirring ALL the time. The first time I did this, the heat was too high, and I didn't know enough to stir all the time. Result: Volcanoes of caustic mix jumping higher than my head, and etching of the base of the pot by the caustic solution. NOT something you want to have happen to you. So stir. ALL the time the pot is on the heat, eh."

Well, that's why I do my HP in the oven and not on the stovetop. In the oven, I've found I only need to to stir my soap when it has reached the gel stage, and even then, I only need to stir briefly. Oh- and I also stir when I add my FO and colorants, buts that's pretty much it as far as stirring goes. [Edited to add.... my soup pot is about 2/3 larger than my batch in case of any accidental volcanoes. So far, though, I've never had a soap volcano.]

Alexandru said:
4. I assume I can use a pot directly on the stove to make soap? Because I do not have a Crockpot and I would not like to use one in making soap.

Yes, you can do it on the stovetop (I have done so before), but I prefer the oven method. The heat is much more even and consistent in the oven.

Alexandru said:
5. Regarding Hot Processed making soap, does it still needs 4 weeks to dry and complete the saponification process? Opinions are not the same, with some saying that it still needs 4 weeks if not to saponify then at least to harden and be more long-lasting, while others saying that only the Cold processed soap needs the 4 weeks to saponify, while you can immediately use the Hot Processed made soap.

Yes- you'll get differing opinions on this point because it's all based on personal preferences. :lol: All soaps, whether Hot Processed or Cold Processed are all safe and ready to use as soon as they are tongue neutral (no zap), but, that does not mean that the soap has matured to it's level best potential in terms of lathering abilities, firmness and longevity yet. HP benefits from a good cure just the same as CP, I've found. That's why I let my HP cure for at least 4 weeks, the same as my CP.

Alexandru said:
6. Regarding the fragrances/essences used to give smell to the soap, like Lavender or Vanilla etc, can they be added only at the end, after the whole process is done? Because I've read that if I add them before saponification, then there is the risk of them evaporating because of the heat.

I add mine at the end, after there is no longer any zap. Many people do HP because their FO reacts badly with active lye, so adding it beforehand would defeat the process.

Alexandru said:
7. Do I need at any time to boil/cook the whole mixture at a certain set of temperatures? Because, although I have a food-measuring thermometer, it would still be hard to keep everything only at a specific temperature and not overpass with one Celsius degree, since any mixture's temperature that is on the stove, goes either up or down, it can't stay static.

I never boil my HP, and with the oven method I never worry about taking its temp. I just put it in my oven set at 170 degreesF (76 degreesC) and let it do it's thing.

Alexandru said:
8. Finally, regarding the recipe that I would like to use, I've studied various recipes, and also the oils properties, therefore I created a recipe that I would like, using the soap-calculator on the web-site www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp. Can you give me an advice, if the recipe I made is balanced and safe regarding the lye content and any other issue? And, for example, if I want to add Coconut milk and honey, should I reduce the water quantity, or they would just be above it and the soap would then become to greasy?

I've never added honey or milk to my HP, (but I know some that do), so I'll let the others who are more knowlegable answer that one.

Alexandru said:
The recipe would be (I hope it will show it as I arranged it in the page, if not, there are the columns titles that show you what the numbers are about, for example an oil is in grams, ounces etc):

Total oil weight 1480
Water as percent of oil weight 38 %
Super Fat/Discount 5 %
Lye Concentration 26.69 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.747:1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 38 : 62
Iodine 61
INS 145
Fragrance Ratio 50
Fragrance Weight 74 Gm

Ingredient Pounds Ounces Grams
Water 1.24 19.838 562.4
Lye - NaOH 0.451 7.222 204.75

# √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams
1 Olive Oil pomace 45 1.468 23.492 666
2 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 20 0.653 10.441 296
3 Palm Oil 20 0.653 10.441 296
4 Lard, Pig Tallow 8 0.261 4.176 118.4
5 Castor Oil 7 0.228 3.654 103.6
Totals 100 3.263 52.206 1480

Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 37
Cleansing 12 - 22 14
Conditioning 44 - 69 60
Bubbly 14 - 46 20
Creamy 16 - 48 29
Iodine 41 - 70 61
INS 136 - 165 145

Lauric 10
Myristic 4
Palmitic 19
Stearic 4
Ricinoleic 6
Oleic 44
Linoleic 9
Linolenic 1

THANK YOU for answering!

I double checked the recipe in SoapCalc and it looks good to me.

IrishLass :)
 

cheesenoodle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
94
Reaction score
6
I'm confused about separation and it's place in hot process. Is it normal for things to separate? At what stage does this happen? What does it look like? What do you do if you see separation?
 

Fragola

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
831
Reaction score
11

Alexandru

New Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Exeter, UK
Thank you everybody for your answers, they have been helpful, I really appreciate it.
To tell the truth, yesterday evening, I was too anxious to wait for any answer and just started my soap-making with the recipe that I mentioned in my previous post. It went quite good I could say (considering it's my first time ever), however, I am not very pleased with the final result! I hope you will be able to help me with this issue, I feel that I've made much progress by having the courage to make my first batch of soap, however the final result is really disappointing. I will add a picture of the soaps, perhaps it helps to see what I mean.

The problem is that, besides all the ingredients in the recipe that I mentioned in my previous post, I also added these aromatic ingredients: 40 mls (40 grams = 1.41 oz) of alimentary Vanilla extract, 40 mls (40 grams = 1.41 oz) of Vanilla fragrance oil for room-burner, 20 mls (20 grams = 0.70 oz) of alimentary yellow coloring (based on a substance called lutein), also 5 spoons of Honey (because I read on a site that it adds greatly to the foam that the soap creates), and 3 tea-spoons of sugar (because of the same reason - reading that it adds greatly to the foam). I mixed all these well in a mug, and then I poured all this in the pot of soap after the moment that I turned off the heating, when the mixture was already like a jelly, therefore saponified. The mixture was quite hot, since I've just stopped heating, but I did not want to wait it to cool much to add the fragrances, since I didn't want to become too hard to pour it in the mold, which in fact it did very soon.

Now the bad thing is that, immediately after I poured the composition and started stirring in order to homogenize, the soap did not turned into a Vanilla-Yellow color that I expected, but turned a very dark brown color, just like poo! Also, the final fragrance of the soap was not very vanilla-like, but something like burnt sugar with a little vanilla smell! Now, I'm already guessing that all this is because the mixture that I added to the soap contained the 3 tsp of sugar and the 5 spoons of honey which is also high in sugar, which might have caramelized. I probably shouldn't have added these in order to have the color and fragrance that I expected from my soap? It is not a good idea to add any sugars to the soap?
What quantity of aromatic oils and coloring should I use to the quantity of oils,water and lye mentioned in my recipe, in order not to obtain bad smells/colors?

Also, the consistency of the soap, now, one day after its making, is quite brittle, especially in the exterior or the batch (I poured the composition in 2 Pringles-chips containers). I cut each cylinder-batch with the knife and it crumbles a bit. After I used a piece to wash myself, the soap went a bit spongy, but this is probably because I didn't allow it to dry and cure?
My question would be: how do I do in order to obtain a soap that is hard and in the same time creamy, like my ideal-type soap which is the Dove cream-bar?

Probably, if you cannot see any wrong thing in the substances that I used in the soap making (I mentioned them in the recipe in my first post, and in this current post I mention all the fragrances and colorings and special ingredients added), it would help mentioning in short how I actually made the soap:
So, I melted the oils, then turned off the heat, then poured in them the lye&water solution, then mixed with the stick-blender for about 3-4 minutes, but not continually since the blender was getting really hot, probably due to the effort :). I kept stirring also with a plastic ladle, for more than 10 minutes, until it hardened and got to the Trace point, becoming like a Vanilla-custard. Then, seeing that no volcano is about to erupt, I put the pot on a slow fire on the stove, stirring a lot, until, after another 20 minutes, it went into a point (I don't know if this is Separation point or not), when the mixture separated into lots of little chunks, like Cottage-cheese with pearls, and quite a lot of water - it wasn't oil, because it wasn't thick at all. After about 30 - 40 minutes of cooking, till it got to the temp of 120 degrees Celsius (248 Fahrenheit), the composition began loosing all water by evaporation. Then the white composition began having yellowish oil in it, and it stayed in this point (probably this is Separation) for about another 15 minutes. And then, in about only 3 minutes, or even less, the whole composition, started to gelify and became soap, very thick and hard to stir. I turned off the heating and I immediately added the mixtures of fragrances and colorings (after which the colour became ugly-pooy-brown), stirred it well and then crammed it in the 2 Pringles-chips mold.

Well, if you can find any errors and bad-practice in the method of making the soap and/or in the ingredients used, I would appreciate any advice. Thank you a lot for the patience to read all these and wish you all the best! Alex.

You can see at this address the image with my soaps, taken now, after about 18 hours since they have been finished. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/soapw.jpg/
 

Fragola

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
831
Reaction score
11
The quantity depends on what fragrance you use. You have used fragrances which may not even be compatible with soap, so it's almost impossible to tell. Who knows if those fragrances give soap a bad smell ?

I believe Dove isn't soap, but a synthetic detergent. But I have just tried a similar CP recipe (only olive, coconut, palm) and looks pretty creamy to me.

The sugar, honey - you need to add them at the end, so that they don't burn.

From the picture, it looks like your soap was almost too hard for pouring. If too much water evaporates, you should add it back. Also, a flatter mold may be better than pringles. I find it difficult to immagine how you can pour HP in pringles without a ton of air bubbles.
 

Alexandru

New Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Exeter, UK
Thanks for the answers. Perhaps the Vanilla liquid fragrance for cooking was the issue, so next time I think I might have to use only other types of Vanilla fragrances, like the oil-one for room-burner. I'm not sure when can I add more water if too much evaporates, because I'm afraid that the mixture might not take it in and it might remain watery at the end.
Regarding the sugar, I won't use it anymore, I think that might be the most responsible for the smell and color. The smell of my soap is like Creme Brulee, not necessarily bad, but too sweet and strong. And I added the sugar and honey only after I turned off the heat, but perhaps the soap temperature didn't cool enough, however had I waited more, I would have had an even harder soap to put in the mold... Anyway, I hope that I will improve with experience...
Update: I've just washed with my soap for the first time now, after 48 hours after it's been done, and I can say that it's nice and smooth, it goes very quickly (but I've read that a week to cure would help in making it more lasting), and it makes very little foam, to my disappointment - and since I won't use honey and sugar anymore as tips to increase its foamyness, then all I could do is to increase the percentage of Castor oil used, from 7 to 10 or 12 %, since I've read that from the oils that I used, it's the only one to have a role in creating bubbly foam.
 

Fragola

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
831
Reaction score
11
You add water 1 spoon at a time, before the soap becomes too hard. If it's already hard, it's more difficult to incorporate, but it still can be muscled in.

You don't want to use higher heat to keep your soap pourable.

Room burner vanilla may not be skin safe.
 

IrishLass

Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
17,862
Reaction score
11,666
Location
Right here, silly!
Alexandru said:
Thanks for the answers. Perhaps the Vanilla liquid fragrance for cooking was the issue, so next time I think I might have to use only other types of Vanilla fragrances, like the oil-one for room-burner.

Like Fragola said- room burning oil may not be skin-safe. You need to make sure that the fragrances you buy are rated skin-safe and soap-safe (I say that because some skin-safe fragrances don't do well in lye-based soap).

Regarding the brown 'poo' color- vanilla fragrances in general, even those formulated especially for use in soap, will turn your soap brown. There are some soap-safe, non-discoloring vanilla fragrances out there, but I have not used any myself yet.

Alexandru said:
I'm not sure when can I add more water if too much evaporates, because I'm afraid that the mixture might not take it in and it might remain watery at the end.

Did you cover your pot? Doing so will help eliminate too much evaportation, but you can add it back in a teaspoon or so at a time, as Fragola mentioned. Stir well after each addition, asses the viscosity, and add more if the batter still seems too stiff/dry.


Alexandru said:
Regarding the sugar, I won't use it anymore, I think that might be the most responsible for the smell and color.

From my experience, I would lay the blame not on the sugar (provided you used white granulated sugar) but the honey instead. Honey always turns my soap brown and gives off a burnt sugar or Bit 'O Honey Candy-like smell, not unlike Creme Brulee (which smell I actually like). Sugar (white granulated sugar) never turns my soap brown or gives off any smells. I normally use one US tablespoon of white sugar ppo and I dissolve it in my water amount before adding my lye to it.

Alexandru said:
Update: I've just washed with my soap for the first time now, after 48 hours after it's been done, and I can say that it's nice and smooth, it goes very quickly (but I've read that a week to cure would help in making it more lasting), and it makes very little foam, to my disappointment

You'll find that you'll get much better results by letting it cure for more than a week - I cure my HP 4 weeks for best results.

Alexandru said:
and since I won't use honey and sugar anymore as tips to increase its foamyness, then all I could do is to increase the percentage of Castor oil used, from 7 to 10 or 12 %, since I've read that from the oils that I used, it's the only one to have a role in creating bubbly foam.

Actually, the coconut oil in your formula, as opposed the the castor oil, will give you a foamier lather (if by 'foamy' you mean big, fluffy-type bubbles as opposed to tiny, dense, creamy ones). I've found that castor helps to boost the bubbly lather already built into my formula from my coconut amount, making it feel bubblier by giving it an underlying 'body' to it, but it doesn't create big, fluffy-type bubbles.

IrishLass :)
 

tammy sue starks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
94
Reaction score
95
Location
montana
Dear everybody,
I am very new to soap-making, in the way that, although I desired much to make my own soap since quite a long time, it is only now that I had the courage to do it. I've ordered nearly all the things that I need, from tools to the ingredients (Palm Oil, Coconut oil, Castor Oil, Olive Oil, lye and all others). I would have some questions regarding the Hot Processed soap-making, since I've seen that on this forum most of the issues discussed are regarding the Cold Processed one, that I would not like because of the big waiting time of 4-6 weeks after, which I could not bear :). If these questions have been already put before, please forgive me, I would appreciate if you would give me at least the place where I could find them answered. Thank you a lot and wish you happy soaping in all the ways! Alex.
So here I write my questions:

1. In the case of Hot Processed Soap, should I keep the mixture of oils and lye-water solution boiling on the stove after Trace, until it reaches and finishes the saponification process? How long would that be and at what temperature should I keep the mixture constantly?
I am asking this because, in a short YouTube film, the soap-maker pours the mixture in the mould immediately after Trace, without waiting for separation and saponification ([ame="[MEDIA=youtube]obSwRc-uuv8[/MEDIA]"] ... re=related[/ame]). In this case I assume that the soap would need at least 4 weeks to dry for saponification to be complete?

2. Actually when can I pour the composition in the mould? Because if I leave the mixture too much time after saponification, then it would cool and become quite hard to put it in a mould and the final aspect would be wrong.

3. After Trace, while the mixture is still on the stove, what do I do for it not to raise and boil until it might reach a reaction that would make it "jump" out of the pot? This is what I read on a web-site (http://allcrafts.tripod.com/index.html), that by not stirring continually and keeping the mixture at an exact temperature until saponification, it would just result in strong reactions. Quote from that web-site: "This is separation. See the curds of soap, resting on the bottom of the pot, covered by the oil. Keep stirring ALL the time. The first time I did this, the heat was too high, and I didn't know enough to stir all the time. Result: Volcanoes of caustic mix jumping higher than my head, and etching of the base of the pot by the caustic solution. NOT something you want to have happen to you. So stir. ALL the time the pot is on the heat, eh."

4. I assume I can use a pot directly on the stove to make soap? Because I do not have a Crockpot and I would not like to use one in making soap.

5. Regarding Hot Processed making soap, does it still needs 4 weeks to dry and complete the saponification process? Opinions are not the same, with some saying that it still needs 4 weeks if not to saponify then at least to harden and be more long-lasting, while others saying that only the Cold processed soap needs the 4 weeks to saponify, while you can immediately use the Hot Processed made soap.

6. Regarding the fragrances/essences used to give smell to the soap, like Lavender or Vanilla etc, can they be added only at the end, after the whole process is done? Because I've read that if I add them before saponification, then there is the risk of them evaporating because of the heat.

7. Do I need at any time to boil/cook the whole mixture at a certain set of temperatures? Because, although I have a food-measuring thermometer, it would still be hard to keep everything only at a specific temperature and not overpass with one Celsius degree, since any mixture's temperature that is on the stove, goes either up or down, it can't stay static.

8. Finally, regarding the recipe that I would like to use, I've studied various recipes, and also the oils properties, therefore I created a recipe that I would like, using the soap-calculator on the web-site www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp. Can you give me an advice, if the recipe I made is balanced and safe regarding the lye content and any other issue? And, for example, if I want to add Coconut milk and honey, should I reduce the water quantity, or they would just be above it and the soap would then become to greasy?

The recipe would be (I hope it will show it as I arranged it in the page, if not, there are the columns titles that show you what the numbers are about, for example an oil is in grams, ounces etc):

Total oil weight 1480
Water as percent of oil weight 38 %
Super Fat/Discount 5 %
Lye Concentration 26.69 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.747:1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 38 : 62
Iodine 61
INS 145
Fragrance Ratio 50
Fragrance Weight 74 Gm

Ingredient Pounds Ounces Grams
Water 1.24 19.838 562.4
Lye - NaOH 0.451 7.222 204.75

# √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams
1 Olive Oil pomace 45 1.468 23.492 666
2 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 20 0.653 10.441 296
3 Palm Oil 20 0.653 10.441 296
4 Lard, Pig Tallow 8 0.261 4.176 118.4
5 Castor Oil 7 0.228 3.654 103.6
Totals 100 3.263 52.206 1480

Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 37
Cleansing 12 - 22 14
Conditioning 44 - 69 60
Bubbly 14 - 46 20
Creamy 16 - 48 29
Iodine 41 - 70 61
INS 136 - 165 145

Lauric 10
Myristic 4
Palmitic 19
Stearic 4
Ricinoleic 6
Oleic 44
Linoleic 9
Linolenic 1

THANK YOU for answering!

It can be used after cooling, because the saponification is done with the heat, however, it does take a while for the water to evaporate out of the bar in my opinion.
 

tammy sue starks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
94
Reaction score
95
Location
montana
Dear everybody,
I am very new to soap-making, in the way that, although I desired much to make my own soap since quite a long time, it is only now that I had the courage to do it. I've ordered nearly all the things that I need, from tools to the ingredients (Palm Oil, Coconut oil, Castor Oil, Olive Oil, lye and all others). I would have some questions regarding the Hot Processed soap-making, since I've seen that on this forum most of the issues discussed are regarding the Cold Processed one, that I would not like because of the big waiting time of 4-6 weeks after, which I could not bear :). If these questions have been already put before, please forgive me, I would appreciate if you would give me at least the place where I could find them answered. Thank you a lot and wish you happy soaping in all the ways! Alex.
So here I write my questions:

1. In the case of Hot Processed Soap, should I keep the mixture of oils and lye-water solution boiling on the stove after Trace, until it reaches and finishes the saponification process? How long would that be and at what temperature should I keep the mixture constantly?
I am asking this because, in a short YouTube film, the soap-maker pours the mixture in the mould immediately after Trace, without waiting for separation and saponification ([ame="[MEDIA=youtube]obSwRc-uuv8[/MEDIA]"] ... re=related[/ame]). In this case I assume that the soap would need at least 4 weeks to dry for saponification to be complete?

2. Actually when can I pour the composition in the mould? Because if I leave the mixture too much time after saponification, then it would cool and become quite hard to put it in a mould and the final aspect would be wrong.

3. After Trace, while the mixture is still on the stove, what do I do for it not to raise and boil until it might reach a reaction that would make it "jump" out of the pot? This is what I read on a web-site (http://allcrafts.tripod.com/index.html), that by not stirring continually and keeping the mixture at an exact temperature until saponification, it would just result in strong reactions. Quote from that web-site: "This is separation. See the curds of soap, resting on the bottom of the pot, covered by the oil. Keep stirring ALL the time. The first time I did this, the heat was too high, and I didn't know enough to stir all the time. Result: Volcanoes of caustic mix jumping higher than my head, and etching of the base of the pot by the caustic solution. NOT something you want to have happen to you. So stir. ALL the time the pot is on the heat, eh."

4. I assume I can use a pot directly on the stove to make soap? Because I do not have a Crockpot and I would not like to use one in making soap.

5. Regarding Hot Processed making soap, does it still needs 4 weeks to dry and complete the saponification process? Opinions are not the same, with some saying that it still needs 4 weeks if not to saponify then at least to harden and be more long-lasting, while others saying that only the Cold processed soap needs the 4 weeks to saponify, while you can immediately use the Hot Processed made soap.

6. Regarding the fragrances/essences used to give smell to the soap, like Lavender or Vanilla etc, can they be added only at the end, after the whole process is done? Because I've read that if I add them before saponification, then there is the risk of them evaporating because of the heat.

7. Do I need at any time to boil/cook the whole mixture at a certain set of temperatures? Because, although I have a food-measuring thermometer, it would still be hard to keep everything only at a specific temperature and not overpass with one Celsius degree, since any mixture's temperature that is on the stove, goes either up or down, it can't stay static.

8. Finally, regarding the recipe that I would like to use, I've studied various recipes, and also the oils properties, therefore I created a recipe that I would like, using the soap-calculator on the web-site www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp. Can you give me an advice, if the recipe I made is balanced and safe regarding the lye content and any other issue? And, for example, if I want to add Coconut milk and honey, should I reduce the water quantity, or they would just be above it and the soap would then become to greasy?

The recipe would be (I hope it will show it as I arranged it in the page, if not, there are the columns titles that show you what the numbers are about, for example an oil is in grams, ounces etc):

Total oil weight 1480
Water as percent of oil weight 38 %
Super Fat/Discount 5 %
Lye Concentration 26.69 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.747:1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 38 : 62
Iodine 61
INS 145
Fragrance Ratio 50
Fragrance Weight 74 Gm

Ingredient Pounds Ounces Grams
Water 1.24 19.838 562.4
Lye - NaOH 0.451 7.222 204.75

# √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams
1 Olive Oil pomace 45 1.468 23.492 666
2 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 20 0.653 10.441 296
3 Palm Oil 20 0.653 10.441 296
4 Lard, Pig Tallow 8 0.261 4.176 118.4
5 Castor Oil 7 0.228 3.654 103.6
Totals 100 3.263 52.206 1480

Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 37
Cleansing 12 - 22 14
Conditioning 44 - 69 60
Bubbly 14 - 46 20
Creamy 16 - 48 29
Iodine 41 - 70 61
INS 136 - 165 145

Lauric 10
Myristic 4
Palmitic 19
Stearic 4
Ricinoleic 6
Oleic 44
Linoleic 9
Linolenic 1

THANK YOU for answering!

if it is etching the bottom of the pot, id be concerned. You aren't using aluminum, or anything other than stainless are you?
 

IrishLass

Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
17,862
Reaction score
11,666
Location
Right here, silly!
Hi Tammy- you unfortunately won't get an answer from Alexandru because the last time he was on the forum was 7 years ago . You can find out when someone was last on the forum by hovering your mouse over their name.


IrishLass :)
 

Latest posts

Top