Question(s) about texture & gelling

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SoapEh

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Oct 13, 2017
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Hi guys!
I just attempted my first rainbow soap. I feel a bit like the little smilie banging his head off the brick wall - this guy -->
:headbanging:
because the process didn't go exactly as planned.

I made up a 4lb batch of my recipe, which is one I've worked with before and love. It's a fast mover, which I *thought* would prove beneficial. I pictured the layers setting up just enough while I mixed up the next colour, so that the new colour wouldn't break through when I poured/spooned it on top.

I didn't slack off, I cut my recipe into seven cups of warmed, mixed oils (by weight, not by eye) and added the micas into each. I stirred the colour in thoroughly and left the oils to cool to room temperature.

I measured each cup of lye water out as I went -- I have a kiddo in the house as well as a cat, so I don't like having mixed lye water around. I've got one of those digital laser thermometers, so I waited for each cup to cool (doesn't take long when it's such a small amount).

The first layer was perfect. Smooth pour, went in at light trace, spread out, started to set up slowly.

The second layer decided not to cooperate. All I can guess is different micas and/or the very small difference in mica & oil amount (castor oil, which is also a component of the recipe) made the difference? The purple was so smooth, the blue got thick so much faster I barely got it into the mold. I managed to get it spread out, but it had a weird, slightly gritty-looking texture (think coconut soap). I soldiered on.

The green layer was also chunky, ish, but bearable. I spread it out and carried on figuring the purple must have been a fluke.

What I hoped would be a sunshine yellow layer was very, very close to soap-on-a-stick. It went 'sploop...sploop...shhhhPLOP!' into the mold; the last 2/3 of it solidified in seconds and slid out of the cup virtually solid. I could see the impression of the bottom of the cup in the soap. I squashed and pressed and begged and pleaded with it and got it into the mold. It looked very much like amateur-hour hot process soap coloured with a highlighter. Gack.

I was ready to throw in the proverbial towel when I mixed up the orange layer, but then... it came out silky smooth and beautifully thin, like the first purple layer. WTheck was going on here? I poured it in and hoped maybe it would somehow melt the gross yellow layer into smooth submission.

The pink/red layer was again grainy and coarse-looking, like coconut oil soap looks.

The last, white layer had TD in it and the oils were thick and creamy-looking before I even added the lye water. Mixed it up expecting a horror and to my surprise it poured out like heavy cream, textured nicely and set up quickly.

I have no idea -- NO idea -- what happened. The recipe is lard based, with palm, coconut, olive oil, palm kernel flakes, a little sweet almond oil, and a touch of castor. It's super moisturizing (over 50% on soapcalc) and the cleansing number is under 15% -- as I mentioned above it does set up wicked quick, but it makes such a beautifully smooth, non-drying soap.

TL;DR --> What's really throwing me is the difference from layer to layer -- can using a mica vs. a pigment (neons) vs. a mix have that much effect?

I have to say, even if this soap is a complete disaster, I am learning SO much tonight. I haven't ever divided a recipe up this way, or made a purposefully layered soap where I tried not to break through a previous colour; I have never tried to make a coordinated rainbow of colours, never mixed up such tiny quantities of soap, and never had to think on my feet the way that a couple of these layers had me thinking!

It's definitely gelling, so whatever happens to the texture, the colours are going to POP. I guess if it turns into colour soup I can always hack it into bits and make nifty embeds for another soap :D Thanks for any thoughts from the more experienced soapers out there!
 
... never mixed up such tiny quantities of soap ...

The answer is in this ^

When you make tiny amounts of batter, especially when you are making up each individual lye batch as you go, ANY change (even an additional couple of grains of lye!) can make a huge difference to how the soap reacts.

Add a significant number of known variables (mica/neon/castor), toss in some accidental variables (eg. lye crystals, water droplets, a bit of extra stirring, slightly different temperatures, etc.) that make a big difference in tiny batches, add in a fast recipe ...

I not surprised you had a lot of different things happening with each layer!

I do hope you post pictures ... they might not be what you imagined, but I reckon they might be fun! :)
 
Ah, so the issue is... all the things!

Honestly, I am starting to really, really love this hobby in a way I never thought I would. You tell people you're getting into making soap and they sort of glaze over, like next you're going to start talking about canning the heirloom tomatoes you grew from your grandmother's organic seeds, but it's really not what people think. It's so *involved*, and so artistic. There's some basic math, which is not my strong point, some basic chemistry, as much art as you want, and you can be so incredibly inventive. You can be straight-laced and follow the tried and true, or you can be way out there and let your freak flag fly; there's something for everybody. I can't *believe* how much there is to learn.

So here's what happened (so far) with my soap...

I took a look this morning and it was sweating oil like mad. It was quite sticky -- seems like maybe castor oil that doesn't want to stay in? I don't know if it'll resorb or not. This recipe gets HARD quickly, so I made the decision to cut the bars even though the loaf had oil on top.

The layers look okay, not perfect but okay. The soap is oily all the way through. I cut it (it's HARD) and put it in a small fruit box, on paper towel, to dry/cure. Right now it's in the kitchen where it'll get loads of air flow, rather than in the pantry with the other curing soaps. I figure I'll give it a few days on the counter before I move it. Even in the pantry it will get lots of air, we never close the door between the pantry and kitchen and we're forever going in and out to get food :)

I will take some pictures later and post them -- I didn't think anyone would want to see my funky disaster, but then again this IS a place where people go to talk incessantly about soap :D
 
I find that different micas do behave differently. TD tends to thicken up the quickest for me though.

I've done a few rainbow soaps, so I'll share my process - maybe it'll help!

1. Add a tsp of mica to each dixie cup (usually 6). Put aside one dixie cup to add my TD to.
2. Heat and mix oils (including fragrance oil) in pitcher.
3. Add 2-3 tbsp of warm oil mixture to each mica dixie cup and TD cup and use a small spatula to incorporate.
4. Add lye solution to main pitcher of oils, stickblend only until emulsion (no trace - still completely liquid).
5. Pour emulsified batter into each dixie cup until 3/4 full. Reserve remaining batter and add dispersed TD to it.
6. Using spoons, mix the contents of each cup until incorporated. Stick blend TD into main batter.
7. Put a book under half of my mould to tilt it onto its side for a wall pour.
8. Pour half the white batter.
9. Gently mix each mica cup before pouring (this re-liquifies it out if it thickened too much). Pour each colour down the wall.
10. Finish up with remaining white batter.
11. Decorate top as preferred.

I'll attach a picture of one of my batches I did using this method. I did have another small pitcher which I mixed a blue mica into, then did an in-the-pot swirl of blue and white instead of plain white.

IMG_20170411_183539_475.jpg
 
I make mine mostly the same as toxicon. I mix all my colors, then melt oils and add masterbatched lye solution. I mix only to emulsion and divide into color containers. The main difference with mine to that point is that I didn't use TD. I did do a wall pour, but didn't swirl it. And obviously I didn't do the fancy unicorn top!

PSX_20171031_111731.jpg
 
I make mine mostly the same as toxicon. I mix all my colors, then melt oils and add masterbatched lye solution. I mix only to emulsion and divide into color containers. The main difference with mine to that point is that I didn't use TD. I did do a wall pour, but didn't swirl it. And obviously I didn't do the fancy unicorn top!

Wow, those neon colours are the bomb! Where did you get them?
 
Wow, those neon colours are the bomb! Where did you get them?

I'll second your request, and toxicon, where did you get your colorants from? Specifically, what are you using for your yellow, orange and red? If it's a trade secret you don't need to spill the beans ;)
 
I divide all my colours as you did ensuring that each cup (say 6) has exactly the same amount of water from the recipe water.

I mix all the remaining lye and water in one batch and let it cool completely. (Or make a master batch the day before).
Then I weigh it and pour 6 cups of the exactly equal amount of lye/water mix. You have to be pedantic about the weights. It's easier if you use 6 containers that weigh exactly the same to start.

This gives you time to work if you want flat layers. Only hand blend if you have a recipe that is a known mover or leave the CO out.
They have to be light trace when you pour to get flat layers.
Pour one layer, wait, then pour the next.

Nurture has some neon colours:

https://nurturesoap.com/collections/color-collections/products/carnival-collection-neon-colors
 
I'll second your request, and toxicon, where did you get your colorants from? Specifically, what are you using for your yellow, orange and red? If it's a trade secret you don't need to spill the beans ;)

They're all from Nurture.

The red is actually a deep pink/magenta!

https://nurturesoap.com/collections...ucts/hollywood-pink-mica-powder-soap-colorant
https://nurturesoap.com/products/electric-orange-mica-powder-soap-colorant
https://nurturesoap.com/collections...cts/sunshine-yellow-mica-powder-soap-colorant

I wouldn't rebuy that yellow, it's quite dull and pale in person and you need to use a lot of it.
 
Thank you guys for the thoughtful replies. Man, those are some STUNNING soaps.

I posted a picture of my *ahem* attempt. Honestly, it's not bad, I shouldn't be too hard on myself -- I started making soap at the end of August, about nine weeks ago, and this was only my twelfth batch of soap. I'm guessing some people out there have made hundreds, if not thousands of batches. Some day I'll be that talented, but it's going to take time :D

Next time I do a rainbow, which will be soon, because... well, I like rainbows, I will soap even cooler, use a slower moving recipe, and just wait longer between layers. I am beginning to see why some YouTubers make huge batches of their more intricate, difficult soaps! All the splitting, measuring, pouring, spooning, blending, wiping, rinsing, washing, waiting, and just plain stressing starts to feel goofy when you're working on a tiny little loaf.
 
I posted a picture of my *ahem* attempt. Honestly, it's not bad, I shouldn't be too hard on myself -- I started making soap at the end of August, about nine weeks ago, and this was only my twelfth batch of soap. I'm guessing some people out there have made hundreds, if not thousands of batches.

Your rainbow soaps turned out much better than mine ever do, and I've been soaping for 15 years now. :)
 
Your rainbow soaps turned out much better than mine ever do, and I've been soaping for 15 years now. :)
I'm not worthy! 15 years? Wow, that's a lot of soap! I get into my kitchen and I have so many things that I want to try, it may take me 15 years to do half of it. Please tell me you keep track; a diary, pictures, notes, end cuts, all of the above? After more than a few years it must be so neat to look back and see your progress.

Thanks for the kudos, it means so much to us noobs when the praise and advice we get comes from from an expert :)
 
I'm not worthy! 15 years? Wow, that's a lot of soap! I get into my kitchen and I have so many things that I want to try, it may take me 15 years to do half of it. Please tell me you keep track; a diary, pictures, notes, end cuts, all of the above? After more than a few years it must be so neat to look back and see your progress.

Thanks for the kudos, it means so much to us noobs when the praise and advice we get comes from from an expert :)

I do. I have several notebooks full, an external hard drive that I move all of my soap pictures too, etc., I use soapmaker to keep track of most everything, and a custom made spreadsheet (because I LOVE spreadsheets) that I use for inventory, sales, costs, etc.,
(Basically everything you can think of soap related is in one of those 4 places of mine)
 
Oooooh... a spreadsheet...

That's a very good idea, so tidy.

My little shoebox museum is fun now, but if I soap for 20 years it's not going to be practical to keep a bar of every soap I ever make.

"Honey, we need to buy another storage unit, 2017-2023 is all full!" Yeah... pictures. Good plan.
 
Oooooh... a spreadsheet...

That's a very good idea, so tidy.

My little shoebox museum is fun now, but if I soap for 20 years it's not going to be practical to keep a bar of every soap I ever make.

"Honey, we need to buy another storage unit, 2017-2023 is all full!" Yeah... pictures. Good plan.

Soapmaker 3 does basically the same thing my spreadsheets do, but all the calculations and formulas are already created in the software, and for me, that's the whole fun of spreadsheets is being able to manipulate the data, so that's why I have both.
I used to keep a bar from every batch, but yeah, it got to be too much. I think even if I stopped soaping/selling today, my family and I would be set in soap until my children's children were grown!! LOL
 
Most if not all colored micas contain TD and I would assume not all have the same amount of TD. I have noticed on Nurture's site td is the second ingredient with many if not most of their micas, still does not mean the amount is the same
 
Where did you post your pic at SoapEh? I don't see it in this thread. Maybe it's my phone? I can see the other rainbow soap pics.
 

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