Question about gel

[GraciousGraphics]

I've also heard, in a different field altogether, that when pouring plastic into molds you can use a vacuum box to draw out the bubbles.
(This was referring to the 2-part pourable plastic to embed items)

I.e. the complete mold, filled with just poured plastic/soap, is placed in an air-tight container of some sort with a lid and a vacuum applied to suck out the air.

Since vacuum pumps are expensive maybe a household vacuum (Hoover) might work - even vacuum pumps never pull all the air out.

 

[bookreader451]

Hi Bob, Thanks for chiming in! As a soap maker of 6 years I have frequently encountered air bubbles not caused by a wire cutter exactly but more like the wire cutter seems to enhance air bubbles that are already there. I seldom have air bubbles anymore so I think it’s a problem that newer soapers encounter more often. When you pour your soap you have to bang it pretty forcefully to get the air bubbles out. I think new soapers are less likely to bang hard enough to get the bubbles out. That’s my theory anyway. I’d appreciate if any seasoned soapers could chime in here with their thoughts.

How do you bang it without ruining the design? I was afraid to slop it everywhere but, I did bang it on the counter.

 

[linne1gi]

I've also heard, in a different field altogether, that when pouring plastic into molds you can use a vacuum box to draw out the bubbles.
(This was referring to the 2-part pourable plastic to embed items)

I.e. the complete mold, filled with just poured plastic/soap, is placed in an air-tight container of some sort with a lid and a vacuum applied to suck out the air.

Since vacuum pumps are expensive maybe a household vacuum (Hoover) might work - even vacuum pumps never pull all the air out.

Well Bob, I’m not at all familiar with pouring plastic. I highly doubt a vacuum could be used with soap but I am not positive. Aside from banging the mold filled with newly poured soap, another top I have, is to “burp” the stick blender before turning it on to mix the oils & lye water. Many newbies do not do this.

 

[linne1gi]

Well Bob, I’m not at all familiar with pouring plastic. I highly doubt a vacuum could be used with soap but I am not positive. Aside from banging the mold filled with newly poured soap, another top I have, is to “burp” the stick blender before turning it on to mix the oils & lye water. Many newbies do not do this.

Sorry, another tip I have. Not top!

 

[linne1gi]

How do you bang it without ruining the design? I was afraid to slop it everywhere but, I did bang it on the counter.

You have to be careful but you need to bang nevertheless.

 

[bookreader451]

You have to be careful but you need to bang nevertheless.

I did see air bubbles when I was stick blending. I will be more careful when I do my next batch this weekend.

 

[linne1gi]

I did see air bubbles when I was stick blending. I will be more careful when I do my next batch this weekend.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[penelopejane]

Hello, I hope it is ok for me to jump in here. My soap looks the same way. I have just started using a wire cutter. I tried washing it and they still have white spots. If it is stearic, what is the answer to avoid the white spots, and if it is wire cutter marks, how do we not get that? I can not cut straight so I was really interested in the wire cutter......but I hate the white spots. Thank you!

If it is wirecutter bubbles you can cut the soap with a knife and they will disappear. THis is not really preventable but a lot of people have found that timing the cutting of the soap just right - not too soft and not too hard - really makes a difference and they can be undetectable.

If it is stearic spots heat your high stearic acid oils (eg: palm, coconut etc) and make sure they are clear mix them in with warm oils (about 43*C works well for me) and SB well before mixing in the warm (about 43*C) NaOH. You won't need to SB much at this temp but you still get a lot of play time if you are not over zealous with the SBer.
This will ensure you don't get stearic spots or swirls in your soap.

Some small white dots can be improperly mixed TD, milk or other powders.

 

[penelopejane]

Long time lurker here, Bob from New Zealand.

I don't make soap, but I do make wire soap cutters - this is the first time I've heard of a wire cutter having a 'downside'.
I'm wondering if anyone has looked further into the problem, perhaps found out just how these air bubbles form and hopefully how to avoid it!

My cutters use a wire of 0.2" (0.508mm). Perhaps a smaller diameter wire would help?
(But that may mean more breakages, and probably more stretching of the wire)

None of the people who use my cutters have mentioned getting bubbles, but perhaps, like me, they haven't heard about it before.
If there is a problem that I can fix, it'd be great to do so before someone complains...
Cheers from Christchurch, Bob

Most people use size "G". Mine have got 0.022P written on them. I am assuming that is the diameter of the wire but I don't know for sure. Someone has worked out the best one to use already -it's not the wire maybe it is the cure of the soap that causes spots.

 

[linne1gi]

If it is wirecutter bubbles you can cut the soap with a knife and they will disappear. THis is not really preventable but a lot of people have found that timing the cutting of the soap just right - not too soft and not too hard - really makes a difference and they can be undetectable.

If it is stearic spots heat your high stearic acid oils (eg: palm, coconut etc) and make sure they are clear mix them in with warm oils (about 43*C works well for me) and SB well before mixing in the warm (about 43*C) NaOH. You won't need to SB much at this temp but you still get a lot of play time if you are not over zealous with the SBer.
This will ensure you don't get stearic spots or swirls in your soap.

Some small white dots can be improperly mixed TD, milk or other powders.

The other tip is to plane or bevel your soaps that have tiny air bubbles. As sometimes it is impractical to cut with a knife- I can’t cut straight slices at all! So if I ever get air bubbles, I would bevel my soaps.

 

[bookreader451]

The other tip is to plane or bevel your soaps that have tiny air bubbles. As sometimes it is impractical to cut with a knife- I can’t cut straight slices at all! So if I ever get air bubbles, I would bevel my soaps.

I just ordered a planer/beveler so I will repost pics after I clean them up. Thinking it was bubbles because the spots don’t seem white after sitting for a while.

 

[linne1gi]

I just ordered a planer/beveler so I will repost pics after I clean them up. Thinking it was bubbles because the spots don’t seem white after sitting for a while.

Great, post some photos.

 

[rjuconnfan]

I have no idea why I am getting these spots more lately. I looked back at all my first soaps from last year. I made over 100 batches, all different recipes. NO spots of any kind. This year, I am more experienced, and am having spots. Some are white and are through the soap. Stearic. Some are bumps but not white. Some disappear when I test cut with a knife, or wet it. The only real change since last year is the wire cutter vs the knife because I can't cut straight even with the box and cutter device. I have tried increasing temps, waiting longer to cut, cleaning the wire between slices. Still getting these bumps. It is annoying since my beginner soaps all look nice and smooth ( but oddly cut and crooked). Now I am making more designs and cutting them straight, and I have spots/bumps. Frustration for sure. Will take some pictures and post later. I will have to start using a plainer but for the stearic, not sure how to beat that. I use the no stir palm this year.....maybe that is an issue. Stumped.

 

[linne1gi]

I have no idea why I am getting these spots more lately. I looked back at all my first soaps from last year. I made over 100 batches, all different recipes. NO spots of any kind. This year, I am more experienced, and am having spots. Some are white and are through the soap. Stearic. Some are bumps but not white. Some disappear when I test cut with a knife, or wet it. The only real change since last year is the wire cutter vs the knife because I can't cut straight even with the box and cutter device. I have tried increasing temps, waiting longer to cut, cleaning the wire between slices. Still getting these bumps. It is annoying since my beginner soaps all look nice and smooth ( but oddly cut and crooked). Now I am making more designs and cutting them straight, and I have spots/bumps. Frustration for sure. Will take some pictures and post later. I will have to start using a plainer but for the stearic, not sure how to beat that. I use the no stir palm this year.....maybe that is an issue. Stumped.

I think if you cut a little later you may be able to eliminate the air bubbles, or plane them if all else fails. The stearic spots are not as easily fixed. I’m pretty sure you get them because the stearic molecules harden before the batter. I think you have to soap hotter to keep the stearic fluid longer. I hate saying this because soaping cooler is my mantra. Maybe DeeAnna knows how to get around this?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I have cut down on tiny bubbles in my soaps by:
1) giving my melted oils a few minutes to release any bubbles that are introduced when I pour the oils. I think stirring the warm oils and melted butters very gently with a spatula in a back and forth motion (not around and around) for a minute or two also helps.
2) using properly sized mixing containers - I have good results if the container is about 2/3 full. Given the volumes of the batches I make relative to the size of my stick blender, most of my containers are a bit taller than they are wide (funnel pitchers, large yogurt containers or bowls with tall sides). I aim to have the end of the stick blender fully submerged, even when I’m pulsing to mix the oils. It took me some time to find containers that are sized just right for my small batch volumes, and the even smaller portions of batter I split to color for swirls and layering.
3) ALWAYS checking to make sure that no air is trapped in the bell of the SB. If I forget to “burp the bell” I stop right away and try to get the bubbles out by gently mixing the batter back and forth with a spatula before I proceed.
4) minimizing stick blending once the batter starts to comes to trace. If I need a heavier trace, I try to be patient and let the chemistry do some of the work, coaxed by stirring rather than stick blending.
5) remembering to bang the mold. When I make salt bars I actually drop the tray that my individual molds are on onto the floor from a height a 2-3” and multiple times. It’s not as crazy as it sounds because the batter is usually at a med to heavy trace. Even though I can’t get every bubble out, it helps, and it doesn’t affect my swirls.

I do still get some bubbles in my loaf mold soaps and the wire cutter makes them very obvious, but not enough to outweigh the benefits of using the wire cutter. I’ve found that I can minimize the appearance of the bubbles by rubbing them with a piece of nylon stocking or microfiber cloth.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

P.S. pretty soap!

 

[linne1gi]

I have cut down on tiny bubbles in my soaps by:
1) giving my melted oils a few minutes to release any bubbles that are introduced when I pour the oils. I think stirring the warm oils and melted butters very gently with a spatula in a back and forth motion (not around and around) for a minute or two also helps.
2) using properly sized mixing containers - I have good results if the container is about 2/3 full. Given the volumes of the batches I make relative to the size of my stick blender, most of my containers are a bit taller than they are wide (funnel pitchers, large yogurt containers or bowls with tall sides). I aim to have the end of the stick blender fully submerged, even when I’m pulsing to mix the oils. It took me some time to find containers that are sized just right for my small batch volumes, and the even smaller portions of batter I split to color for swirls and layering.
3) ALWAYS checking to make sure that no air is trapped in the bell of the SB. If I forget to “burp the bell” I stop right away and try to get the bubbles out by gently mixing the batter back and forth with a spatula before I proceed.
4) minimizing stick blending once the batter starts to comes to trace. If I need a heavier trace, I try to be patient and let the chemistry do some of the work, coaxed by stirring rather than stick blending.
5) remembering to bang the mold. When I make salt bars I actually drop the tray that my individual molds are on onto the floor from a height a 2-3” and multiple times. It’s not as crazy as it sounds because the batter is usually at a med to heavy trace. Even though I can’t get every bubble out, it helps, and it doesn’t affect my swirls.

I do still get some bubbles in my loaf mold soaps and the wire cutter makes them very obvious, but not enough to outweigh the benefits of using the wire cutter. I’ve found that I can minimize the appearance of the bubbles by rubbing them with a piece of nylon stocking or microfiber cloth.

I also found that after time the bubbles are much less noticeable.

 

[penelopejane]

I have no idea why I am getting these spots more lately. I looked back at all my first soaps from last year. I made over 100 batches, all different recipes. NO spots of any kind. This year, I am more experienced, and am having spots. Some are white and are through the soap. Stearic. Some are bumps but not white. Some disappear when I test cut with a knife, or wet it. The only real change since last year is the wire cutter vs the knife because I can't cut straight even with the box and cutter device. I have tried increasing temps, waiting longer to cut, cleaning the wire between slices. Still getting these bumps. It is annoying since my beginner soaps all look nice and smooth ( but oddly cut and crooked). Now I am making more designs and cutting them straight, and I have spots/bumps. Frustration for sure. Will take some pictures and post later. I will have to start using a plainer but for the stearic, not sure how to beat that. I use the no stir palm this year.....maybe that is an issue. Stumped.

Can you post some photos so we can help you work this out?

 

[Baqn]

Hallo Mobjack Bay, I suppose that your bubbles are not coming only from the mixing of the oils, nor from SB or post mixing. You can incorporate small air bubbles during pouring also. While the batter is cool they are small. Once the saponification starts in the mold the temerature rises. The air in the small bubbles get warmer and warmer. The hotter the air is, the bigger volume it has.
You can not evacuate small bubbles from the batter. Once it gets to trace it is too viscous for small bubbles to move to the surface. They are trapped. I get such bubbles when I make swirls and pour different colours in the mold. What comes to my mind to prevent bubbles is to prevent heating in the mold.

 

[soapmaker]

Bookreader, that was a great first try!