Qualities that oils add to a soap

[David Dorman]

I have been making soap on and off for the last 10 years. Mostly hot process. This question is concerning hot process soap where superfatting would be done after the cook and is controllable.

When charts and calculators state "qualities" that a particular type of oil adds to a soap, is that quality the oil has
A. before saponification
B. after saponification
C. qualities of the unsaponified oils remaining in the recipe (from superfatting if there is any in the recipe)
D. qualities of the unsaponifiables of an oil remaining in the recipe

What I am trying to learn is, if you are going to add ingredients to enhance lather, conditioning and hardness, does it really matter what your base oils are. Aren't most base oils consumed by the lye and they are just soap. Where do the qualities of the individual oils of the recipe come from?

 

[steffamarie]

It’s determined by the fatty acids in the oil. Lauric, myristic, oleic, etc. The hardness/conditioning/etc numbers reflect the fatty acid profile of the oils selected. Each fatty acid contributes something to the finished soap.

ETA yes it does matter what your base oils are. A coconut oil soap that is high in lauric and myristic acids will not last as long as a balanced soap with say palm that is high in stearic and palmitic acids.

 

[David Dorman]

Thanks.
So what you are saying is that the qualities are from the saponified oil? So then, adding a particular oil as superfat in hp after the cook would result in a different quality?

 

[shunt2011]

Soap after saponification is no longer oils, it's salts. Some of what you add for a SF in HP may remain but there are still changes in the soap after saponification is what we think as done. With a good cure I believe it continues to have structure changes and becomes a bit milder (CP & HP both). We really don't know what's remaining at the end.

I do primarily CP. I use Shea butter in my recipe. Shea naturally has unsaponifiables but I don't know how much, does some of it remain in my calculated SF? I like to think so. The only time I truly do HP is my shave soap. I add my SF & Glycerine after the cook. Glycerin doesn't saponify anyway. I think all the way around it a bit of a guess of what remains.

Some folks will tell you flat out what they add after cook remains....I'm skeptical.....but it doesn't really matter as I'm only making soap. It's a wash off product. If I want the qualities in specific oils I'll make a leave on product.

 

[Lin19687]

I am not a scientist.... but my simple mind says that if you add lots of oils after the 'cook' thinking they Don't saponify , then wouldn't that oil just float around? I think that it still does saponify to an extent or it wouldn't be incorporated into the soap, no? Yes there are some degrees of saponification I think and maybe it is only slighty done.
When you do a single oil recipe to figure out what the oils gives, you get an idea. But I think when you have other oils in that recipe that even that single oil can change. I am sure I am not correct but that is why we try different recipes to see what works and what doesn't.

............ course I didn't drink all my coffee yet so this all may be a dream talking

 

[Obsidian]

If the chart has qualities that the oil adds to soap, its after saponification.

Thanks.
So what you are saying is that the qualities are from the saponified oil? So then, adding a particular oil as superfat in hp after the cook would result in a different quality?

Yes, the qualities are for saponified oils. If you want to see the qualities of just the oil, look up a chart for oils in skin care.

Example, coconut oil makes a very cleansing harsh soap but the the oil applied directly to the skin is a very nice lightweight emollient.

What the oils changes into when it becomes soap is completely different than what its like applied straight on the skin.

The idea of adding sf after the cook in HP is to keep the skin benefits of the sf oil. Really a waste of time imo, the sf oil still undergoes a change.
If someone wants a certain oil on their skin, better to make a lotion

If you want certain oil properties in your soap, such as castor boosting lather, it must be saponified