Pros and cons with using different types of milk

[kagey]

Goat's milk, cow's milk, breast milk, yogurt, coconut milk, condensed milk, buttermilk.... you name it, i've read something about it...

I've been researching the pros and cons on the different types of milk.
But I have yet to find a good resource that talks about the chemistry of this:
i.e., fatty acids, boiling points (curdling) and sugar content

Does anyone know the pros and cons of these?
If you could only use one, which one would it be?
I know there's a trend towards Goat's Milk and it's used in marketing -- but is it really superior to all the others?

Wish I knew how to track down Dr. McSoapy (Kevin Dunn) - I would bet he's done some testing on this....

 

[Arimara]

People who like milk soaps like what they like. None of those soaps are any better than the other unless you have allergies or are sensitive to higher amounts of coconut. From experience, I can say that goat's milk tended to be the most gentle of what you listed, butter can be a bit more cleansing but still pleasant, coconut milk involves som serious math depending on the type and fat content you use, and yogurt is better left for HP soap. I have/will not use breast milk in soap and condensed milk has too much sugar for me to use alone.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I make vegan soap so have only used coconut milk. I use it regularly. I adapt my recipe to use it (more lye, less water), but essentially all it brings to the table is a little extra superfat and some sugar as i understand it. But it does have label appeal

 

[AliOop]

I personally love both goat milk and coconut milk, whether fresh or powdered. They do have a nice feel to them. Planning to try oat milk but I have (and love) colloidal oats so I'm not very motivated to go to the extra trouble to make the milk.

As an aside, a friend who had tried lots of my soaps recently tried a ZNSC bar with goat milk. I didn't tell her it had goat milk in it, nor did she know that the others she'd tried did not have GM. She called me up raving about it and said she keeps going back to wash because the lather feels so amazing. Her words, "I love love love this soap. I must have more of this soap. However you made it, do the exact same thing again and give it all to me."

Me: "So just to be sure I'm understanding you, are you saying you like this soap?"

Seriously, some say that milk is only for label appeal. But some of us do feel a difference. That's what so fun - make it the way you like it!

 

[dibbles]

As a new soap maker and wanting to try all.the.things, I made and used oat milk, and made soap with buttermilk, goats milk, heavy cream, coconut milk and yogurt. They are all nice soaps. Mostly now I keep a can of coconut milk on hand so it’s available if I want to include it in a soap, and if I have buttermilk left over from baking I freeze it to use in soap to keep it from going to waste. That said, I am using a goats milk soap right now from another maker, and am reminded of how nice it is. Enough that I looked for goat milk powder at my regular grocery store, which evidently quit stocking it at some point

 

[AliOop]

@dibbles you just reminded me that I'm running low on GMP.

WSP has it for $1.44/oz, but it requires a $25 minimum order and wouldn't arrive for weeks. Thankfully, my local Whole Foods has it for $1.17/oz. They deliver for free with orders over $45. Adding it to my grocery order now -thank you!

 

[dibbles]

@AliOop I thought Whole Foods would probably have it. There is one near the Trader Joe's I shop at, so will check the next time I am in that area. Thank you!

ETA: Amazon has it for $1.15/oz if I get desperate.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Oh! I didn't even think of oat milk which I use quite regularly too. I make my own. I like all my soap, and don't really notice any difference in the 'feel' of one bar to another. Having said that, I use 'something' in all my soap. I never just use plain distilled water.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Milks vary in composition. Some will add relatively more or less sugar or short chain fatty acids. Depending on how much you’re using and the type of milk, it may make sense to consider the composition in recipe formulation. Here are the links I have saved for reference:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.577759/full”Sheep and goat milk fats are known to be rich in short chain (responsible for the distinct flavor of these milks) and medium chain triacylglycerols (TAGs)”

Focusing on fatty acid profile in milk from different species after in vitro digestion | Journal of Dairy Research | Cambridge Core (provides FA % composition for milks and digested milks)

Based on composition, the animal milks fall more or less into three groups: (1j ruminant = cow, goat, sheep (most fat, especially sheep), (2) non-ruminant = horse, donkey (less fat, more sugar compared with ruminants) and (3) human (high in sugar compared with ruminant milk; between ruminants and non-ruminants in fat content).

Plant/seed/nut-derived milks vary considerably depending on source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oat_milkhttps://coconuthandbook.tetrapak.com/chapter/chemistry-coconut-milk-and-creamhttps://www.researchgate.net/public...ssible_health_effects_of_coconut_constituents

 

[LynetteO]

I personally love both goat milk and coconut milk, whether fresh or powdered. They do have a nice feel to them. Planning to try oat milk but I have (and love) colloidal oats so I'm not very motivated to go to the extra trouble to make the milk.

As an aside, a friend who had tried lots of my soaps recently tried a ZNSC bar with goat milk. I didn't tell her it had goat milk in it, nor did she know that the others she'd tried did not have GM. She called me up raving about it and said she keeps going back to wash because the lather feels so amazing. Her words, "I love love love this soap. I must have more of this soap. However you made it, do the exact same thing again and give it all to me."

Me: "So just to be sure I'm understanding you, are you saying you like this soap?"

Seriously, some say that milk is only for label appeal. But some of us do feel a difference. That's what so fun - make it the way you like it!

I definitely noticed that I was in love with ZNSC that I did make with some goat milk (.7 of the 1.7 liquid) but it was also my very 1st batch of ZNSC so I assumed it was just a fabulous recipe, IT VERY MUCH IS. However I will happily take opportunity to make another batch without the milk to see. Love ZNSC so much!

 

[amd]

I can't speak on the science of it but here's my thoughts.

Goat's milk, cow's milk, breast milk, yogurt, coconut milk, condensed milk, buttermilk

GM: I've used and honestly I can't tell the difference between that and CM other than the smell
Breast Milk: I make custom batches for mamas, it makes a nice soap, but I understand the "heebie jeebies" associated with using someone else's milk. Honestly I cringe a little when testing the soap.
Yogurt: My personal favorite simply because a little goes a long way, and it's lotiony
Coconut Milk: I use this often, it's comparable (to me) to GM but without the smell
Buttermilk: My second favorite, similar to yogurt in lotion quality but it gets a bit better lather. I use this in my OMH lineup.

I know there's a trend towards Goat's Milk and it's used in marketing -- but is it really superior to all the others?

I don't think so, I would never dismiss a soap because it doesn't have GM - but admit I have passed on GM soaps because of the smell.

coconut milk involves som serious math depending on the type and fat content you use

Other than subtracting from my water amount, I have never done math for using CM.

But some of us do feel a difference.

I used to agree with this, but then Dibbles did some testing with various ingredients. I discovered that a couple soaps that I thought were milk soaps were using sorbitol. So I've adjusted my thinking to "I can tell when additives are used and it's more than a lye + water + oils soap".

 

[AliOop]

@amd I agree that it can be hard to tell what additive is making the soap feel so nice. I should have mentioned that I use sorbitol in almost every batch, including my GMP batches. So the difference this person was feeling was the GMP.

We already knew that she loves high OO soaps, but her reaction is making me expand my line to include this, bc she’s not the first to swoon over it. I do admit to loving, it too, despite the fact that I generally shun OO in my soaps bc it dries my skin. But this ZNSC w/15% CO and 5% castor, plus the GMP and sorbitol, doesn’t do that at all. I’m shocked frankly and am going to try it with some other soft oils to see if I can get the same feel for less $$$.

 

[LynetteO]

Oy Vey, I’m almost afraid to ask…

Have I been using powdered CM incorrectly?!?? I make small (16oz oil) batches, & have been tossing in 1tsp of powdered CM to my oils & blending, prior to adding the lye solution. I’ve never adjusted my water or lye. I do superfat @ 4%. Does the fat of the CM affect the amount of lye needed?

 

[AliOop]

Oy Vey, I’m almost afraid to ask…

Have I been using powdered CM incorrectly?!?? I make small (16oz oil) batches, & have been tossing in 1tsp of powdered CM to my oils & blending, prior to adding the lye solution. I’ve never adjusted my water or lye. I do superfat @ 4%. Does the fat of the CM affect the amount of lye needed?

I don’t change my SF either, but I only start at 2 or 3% anyway.

 

[Arimara]

@amd The varieties of coconut milk I have used had enough fat in it to drive up the superfat and bump up the cleansing factor. Especially now, I don't like doing the math with how much to use with this and that. I make too many mistakes now. Sure I can use low fat but I also drink coconut milk and I'm leery of low-fat varieties.

 

[amd]

The varieties of coconut milk I have used had enough fat in it to drive up the superfat and bump up the cleansing factor.

Ahhh... that may be the difference. I use a low SF and low CO recipe, and only use milks 50/50 (or less in the case of buttermilk and yogurt). I wouldn't say that math is required to use CM though. I think there's quite a few on the forum besides me who don't have concern for the SF or cleansing numbers based on our recipe when using CM.

 

[Arimara]

@amd That's true but I like to make sure that type of soap feels right, if I make it. I don't always do a 50/50 method and with coconut milk, I have never don't that. So in essence, I'm dealing with extra fat and stuff that you may not be dealing with.

 

[amd]

So in essence, I'm dealing with extra fat and stuff that you may not be dealing with.

My point is that it is not necessary to do math with CM. You can choose to do so, but if you don't it will still make soap.

 

[Carly B]

Oy Vey, I’m almost afraid to ask…

Have I been using powdered CM incorrectly?!?? I make small (16oz oil) batches, & have been tossing in 1tsp of powdered CM to my oils & blending, prior to adding the lye solution. I’ve never adjusted my water or lye. I do superfat @ 4%. Does the fat of the CM affect the amount of lye needed?

I do pretty much the same with powdered goatmilk, only I uses more than a tsp, I think. Whatever size the scoop is in the can. I LOVE goatmilk in soap, haven't tried the others, but the thought of yogurt intrigues me. We usually get the non-fat Greek yogurt, so I don't think that will work the same way, since there is no fat and a lot of the liquid was strained out. But I don't know for sure.

 

[amd]

We usually get the non-fat Greek yogurt, so I don't think that will work the same way, since there is no fat and a lot of the liquid was strained out. But I don't know for sure.

Non-fat simply means you don't have fats to react with the lye. There still should be plenty of milk proteins to contribute to the benefits of adding it to your soap. Now I'm curious to try a batch of each to compare. I usually make my own yogurt, so I don't know if that also changes the way it would behave in soap. I'm thinking though that the difference between fat and non-fat is only a slight change in superfat, probably not noticeable.