Please check this recipe

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penelopejane

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Hi,
Can you please give your opinion of this recipe?

I am aiming for a basic recipe that fits with my allergies.
I would like something that is reasonably hard but not too drying.
I shouldn't really have coconut oil but thought I needed it to bring the numbers up. I can have Almond oil and was going to swap the Camellia oil for it to see which is better in another recipe.

540 g Rice Bran Oil 60%
135 g Shea Oil 15%
90 g Camellia Oil 10%
90 g Coconut oil 10%
45 g Castor Oil 5%

I thought I would go for 30% lye concentration (is that slow?) and 5% superfat.
 

Susie

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Are you allergic to Babassu or PKO (palm kernel oil)? Both of those are good substitutes for CO.

Also, is there some reason you won't use an oil in the lard/tallow/palm category? That would help harden that soap.

Why the 10% Camellia oil? What is it bringing to your soap? Same thing for shea butter. If you don't know what they bring, and need to test them, do one or the other, then in the next batch, do the other one. Then you will know.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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You could look at using Palm Kernel Oil or Babassau Oil instead of coconut.

This will be physically a very soft bar for a while, as the bulk of it is made up of liquid oils. That said, I would also reconsider the shea if you keep the CO at 10%, as butters cut the lather - it's usually only when they are used in higher amounts, but when you are already fighting for bubbles anything that can impede that will be making a big difference.

That brings me on to another point - you don't actually need big bubbles. A Castile (100% Olive Oil) has a cleansing value of 0 but still cleans
 

penelopejane

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You could look at using Palm Kernel Oil or Babassau Oil instead of coconut.

This will be physically a very soft bar for a while, as the bulk of it is made up of liquid oils. That said, I would also reconsider the shea if you keep the CO at 10%, as butters cut the lather - it's usually only when they are used in higher amounts, but when you are already fighting for bubbles anything that can impede that will be making a big difference.

That brings me on to another point - you don't actually need big bubbles. A Castile (100% Olive Oil) has a cleansing value of 0 but still cleans
I can't use Palm oil, Babassau Oil, olive oil, tallow or lard. So I am trying to work with the things I can use.
Coconut to make it harder. If I took that out it would be very soft wouldn't it?
Shea for lotion like lather and adds a satiny feel to the soap.
I thought camellia oil as good for moisturising (same as almond oil) and is high in vit A and E and is good for healing skin.

I just thought I should ask for opinions rather than re-inventing the wheel every time I make a soap. It is getting so wasteful making mistakes all the time.

Is olive oil the only oil that gets harder over time?
 
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The Efficacious Gentleman

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I don't know how much of a difference such an amount of coconut would make overall.

Have you used the Shea before? As for the cam oil, do bear in mind that the actual properties of an oil do not automatically transfer in to the salt of the oil - sodium cocoate, for example, is totally different than coconut oil for the skin. While a certain oil might be great when used topically, is the salt of that oil the same?
 

penelopejane

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I don't know how much of a difference such an amount of coconut would make overall.

Have you used the Shea before? As for the cam oil, do bear in mind that the actual properties of an oil do not automatically transfer in to the salt of the oil - sodium cocoate, for example, is totally different than coconut oil for the skin. While a certain oil might be great when used topically, is the salt of that oil the same?
Yes I've used Shea before but all my soaps are curing so I don't know the differences. I have used castille soap and other olive oil based soaps.

I got those qualities from soap making forums, providers and lists.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Then personally, I would wait until the others are cured before changing it up too much - until you know what you don't like about a soap, you might well be changing things for the worse!
 

shunt2011

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I agree with TEG. If you are making soap for yourself, I would wait until your other batches are cured so you can get a feel for them to see if they will work for you. Then you can tweak it from there.
 

penelopejane

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Unfortunately, other than the Castile soap, my other batches are write offs. I want to make some soap for Christmas and can't wait 8 weeks between batches.

Thanks for your help.
 

Susie

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Yeah, no giving soap away until you are REALLY HAPPY with a WELL CURED batch. High OO soaps take a very long time to cure properly...think months, not weeks.

If you are just determined to give soap away for Christmas, I would think hard about MP. Add some color, some scent, swirl to your heart's content, and you have Christmas presents in a very short while.
 

penelopejane

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I was only going to give it away to my boys : )
They are curing but I will probably have to throw them away because there are too many failures to use up. The Castile soap has to cure for another 10 months.
 

penelopejane

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Failures because they look bad - TD rivers, blotchy etc

Is OO the only oil that in soap, gets harder over time?
Is 30% lye fairly slow? Is 33% slower or faster?
 

IrishLass

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Failures because they look bad - TD rivers, blotchy etc
They may not look as well as you had hoped they would, but those kinds of things are purely cosmetic issues. The soap itself should be perfectly fine to use. If they were mine, I wouldn't toss them out but just keep them for my own use.

Is OO the only oil that in soap, gets harder over time?
All soaped oils will get harder over time, but some take longer to harden than others.


Is 30% lye fairly slow? Is 33% slower or faster?
If you're talking in terms of lye concentration (as opposed to 'water as % of oils'), then yes- a 30% lye concentration will be slower than a 33% lye concentration.

I use a 30% lye concentration lots of times when I'm working with a fast-moving FO, but if a FO is even more ornery than that, I'll use a 28% lye concentration instead, which is considered to be a 'full-water' amount.


IrishLass :)
 

penelopejane

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They may not look as well as you had hoped they would, but those kinds of things are purely cosmetic issues. The soap itself should be perfectly fine to use. If they were mine, I wouldn't toss them out but just keep them for my own use.
Thanks IrishLass, I will hold onto them but there are going to be a lot to use up! The last batch doesn't look as bad as it did on day 1. It might be salvageable. : )

All soaped oils will get harder over time, but some take longer to harden than others.
That is very good to know. Thank you.


If you're talking in terms of lye concentration (as opposed to 'water as % of oils'), then yes- a 30% lye concentration will be slower than a 33% lye concentration.

I use a 30% lye concentration lots of times when I'm working with a fast-moving FO, but if a FO is even more ornery than that, I'll use a 28% lye concentration instead, which is considered to be a 'full-water' amount.


IrishLass :)
I think I need to slow things down a bit to give myself a bit more time. So I might use 28% lye concentration.

I have noticed that a lot of soap making videos pour the soap when it has just reached emulsion. It doesn't even look as if it has reached trace. It gives them a lot of time.

Castile soap is easy because there is nothing to do except blend and pour.

It's not that I am not organised - I have everything laid out ready to go but I did add a fragrance last time and bam it accelerated.

Thank you for your help.

I also read where someone said to make a small batch that lines the bottom of a loaf mold 25mm thick so you cut about 4 pieces of soap per pour. I think I can measure everything accurately and it may not waste as much oil on dud recipes. So pleased to be testing my soaps in 8 weeks rather than 10 months for the castile.

pj
 
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kmkieva

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As a beginning soapmaker myself, I'm finding out that patience is not one of my better qualities. I too don't want to wait weeks or months to find out whether my soap is a "pass" or not. However, if we want to progress in this, we MUST learn patience. It's going to be a tough lesson...:cry:
 

Obsidian

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I don't see anything particularly wrong with that recipe, it ight not have a ton of lather and need a bit longer cure to get really hard but it should be a nice enough bar.
I would probably rework it a tiny bit and remove the camellia oil altogether. Its a awful expensive additive for a wash off product. It would be better in lotion or even applied directly to the skin.

I've used a high amount of rice bran before, made a nice soap but after a year or so, its started to smell a bit old. It didn't get DOS but I wish I had used a scent that stuck better to help cover the old smell.

Have you ever tried HO safflower oil? I've been experimenting with it lately. It traces a bit slower the OO and it's much softer. Even after 3 weeks or so my 100% saff bars are a tiny bit soft but since I'm curing them for 6 months, the softness really isn't a issue. I have been using a tester bar at the sink, it lathers much like castile but without the slime and it doesn't dry me like castile does, it leaves my skin really soft.

You have shea oil written, do you really have the fractionated oil or will you be using the butter? You really want to use the butter, it will help with hardness.
 

IrishLass

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I also read where someone said to make a small batch that lines the bottom of a loaf mold 25mm thick so you cut about 4 pieces of soap per pour. I think I can measure everything accurately and it may not waste as much oil on dud recipes. So pleased to be testing my soaps in 8 weeks rather than 10 months for the castile.

pj
I utilize my 2-pound log mold sometimes to do that very same thing and it works great, only I prefer my 4 soaps to be on the thicker side, so I pour to a depth of 32 mm.


IrishLass :)
 

penelopejane

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I don't see anything particularly wrong with that recipe, it ight not have a ton of lather and need a bit longer cure to get really hard but it should be a nice enough bar.
I would probably rework it a tiny bit and remove the camellia oil altogether. Its a awful expensive additive for a wash off product. It would be better in lotion or even applied directly to the skin.

I've used a high amount of rice bran before, made a nice soap but after a year or so, its started to smell a bit old. It didn't get DOS but I wish I had used a scent that stuck better to help cover the old smell.

Have you ever tried HO safflower oil? I've been experimenting with it lately. It traces a bit slower the OO and it's much softer. Even after 3 weeks or so my 100% saff bars are a tiny bit soft but since I'm curing them for 6 months, the softness really isn't a issue. I have been using a tester bar at the sink, it lathers much like castile but without the slime and it doesn't dry me like castile does, it leaves my skin really soft.

You have shea oil written, do you really have the fractionated oil or will you be using the butter? You really want to use the butter, it will help with hardness.

Thanks so much obsidian. The camellia oil was really quite reasonably priced - almost the same price as the Shea butter. I thought it might make it a bit creamier?

Someone else said to use ROE or Vit E with rice bran oil so that's what I'm doing. It's going to have to be my staple oil I think.

I've been noticing a few people use safflower oil. I can't get it locally so will have to wait to order some.

Yes I have 5 kg (10 lb) of shea butter - sorry for the confusion. It is lovely. Not remelted just scooped into the bucket it came in.
 
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