Palm kernel oil?

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slipknott76

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Can someone explain the actual difference between palm kernel oil and Palm Kernel flakes?
 

slipknott76

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Both are solid to over 100 degrees but there is a massive difference in the lye calculator aspect of thing
Using more than two or three ounces of Palm kernel flakes in 7lb loaf will really throw your lye calculator numbers out of whack. But use Palm kernel oil doesn't it's very close to coconut oil. Is seems to me like the flakes are some sort of concentrate of Palm Kernel oil.
I think I've read before that Palm kernel oil is a hydrogenated oil but doesn't that just mean it's whipped to death
 
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The Efficacious Gentleman

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They actually join the molecules with hydrogen ones, which changes it so much.

Is it just the sap number that changes, or the actual properties?
 

cmzaha

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Check out the fatty acid profiles and you will see the difference. Hydrogenation more stearic is on of the fatty acids that changes which ups the hardness considerably. They really both work fine in soap. I use PKO because I can purchase it cheaper than PKO Flakes. You can balance the difference in the fatty acids by the other oils you choose to use. Many soapers here like a combination of CO and PKO /PKO Flakes. They will take the total coconut that would be use and split it between the two. PKO is a cleansing oil like Coconut Oil in soap
 

topofmurrayhill

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They actually join the molecules with hydrogen ones, which changes it so much.

Is it just the sap number that changes, or the actual properties?
The SAP value shouldn't change much if at all, but the properties change and the iodine value goes down.

Hydrogenation causes less saturated fatty acids to become more saturated. For instance, linoleic acid becomes oleic acid and oleic acid becomes stearic acid. This results in a harder oil that makes harder soap. All hydrogenated oils make a harder soap than the non-hydrogenated form, so PKO flakes make a slightly harder soap than regular PKO. You can see the difference in the fatty acids in Soapcalc.

Only unsaturated fatty acids can be trans-fat. The double bonds in those fatty acids (missing hydrogen atoms) cause them to be bent in shape. There is more than one way they can bend, but only one shape is found in nature. For instance, hydrogenation tends to produce trans-oleic acid, whereas in nature you only find the shape called cis-oleic acid.

Fully hydrogenated oil is very hard and contains no trans-fat. The fatty acids have been converted to mainly stearic and palmitic acids. Those molecules have only one (straight) shape.

Hydrogenation used to be the standard way of producing margarine and shortening, but you no longer see that in most supermarket products because of the trans-fat. There are other ways of partially solidifying oils without making trans-fat. One example: combine non-hydrogenated soybean oil (liquid, no trans-fat) with fully hydrogenated soybean oil (very hard, no trans-fat) and put the mixture through a process that swaps around all the fatty acids between the oil molecules. That makes the soft triglycerides harder and the hard triglycerides softer. It's called transesterification.
 
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Obsidian

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I used a fair amount of flakes the beginning of 2015 and really liked the soap. It seemed harder/waxier then the same recipe made with coconut oil. I need to get more so I can test it in my base lard recipe.
 

shunt2011

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I use PKO flakes along with CO and really like the combination. I was using more CO than PKO but switched it up after IL said she did and I like it better.
 

slipknott76

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Thank everyone! I asked because I used to use PKO all the time about 2 months ago I switched. After a full cure the bars do seem a bit harder but they seem to be significantly softer in the first couple of weeks. When I used to use the PKO I was always able to remove and cut a loaf within 24 to 36 hrs. Since I started used the flakes that time frame has changed to more like a minimum of 72 hrs. I only have one mold per size (1- 4 lb mold, 1-5 lb mold, 1-6 lb mold etc.), I can easily make more but it was never a issue when using the PKO just make a loaf and the next day pop it out and make another. Switching to the flakes has messed with my routine and I hate things that mess with my routine:)
 

Nevada

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Happy New Year! You can find "similar Threads" by down to the bottom of the page.

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palm kernel oil versus palm oil PippiL Lye-Based Soap Forum 20 08-25-2014 12:03 AM
Is palm shortening made of palm or palm kernel? ambers_artworld Lye-Based Soap Forum 7 10-17-2012 06:37 PM
Palm Kernel Oil and Palm Kernel Flakes?? NameThatCandy Lye-Based Soap Forum 13 05-07-2012 09:59 AM
Palm Oil versus Palm Kernel oil

Can someone explain the actual difference between palm kernel oil and Palm Kernel flakes?
 

shunt2011

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Thank everyone! I asked because I used to use PKO all the time about 2 months ago I switched. After a full cure the bars do seem a bit harder but they seem to be significantly softer in the first couple of weeks. When I used to use the PKO I was always able to remove and cut a loaf within 24 to 36 hrs. Since I started used the flakes that time frame has changed to more like a minimum of 72 hrs. I only have one mold per size (1- 4 lb mold, 1-5 lb mold, 1-6 lb mold etc.), I can easily make more but it was never a issue when using the PKO just make a loaf and the next day pop it out and make another. Switching to the flakes has messed with my routine and I hate things that mess with my routine:)

I use PKO flakes and can unmold in 12 hours generally. I've not used the other though so can't speak to that.
 

slipknott76

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Found the problem

Thanks guys I found out what has been going wrong. I use Soap Calc to run my recipes though and the numbers that Soap Calc put out for Palm Kernel Flakes are way way off. I have the free version and will never use it again. Does anyone else use Soap Calc. Can you tell me if you have had similar issues.
 

topofmurrayhill

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Thanks guys I found out what has been going wrong. I use Soap Calc to run my recipes though and the numbers that Soap Calc put out for Palm Kernel Flakes are way way off. I have the free version and will never use it again. Does anyone else use Soap Calc. Can you tell me if you have had similar issues.
Are you referring to a mobile app? When you say Soap Calc I think of the web based calculator that most people use (which works fine for PKO flakes).
 

shunt2011

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Thanks guys I found out what has been going wrong. I use Soap Calc to run my recipes though and the numbers that Soap Calc put out for Palm Kernel Flakes are way way off. I have the free version and will never use it again. Does anyone else use Soap Calc. Can you tell me if you have had similar issues.
I use Soap Calc an use PKO Flakes and have no issues. Not sure what you are asking/saying. I've been using it for years.
 

slipknott76

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I have the mobile app free version on my iPad. It's always worked fine for every other oil but it's calculations are way off when it comes to PKO flakes
 

cmzaha

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According to Soaper's Choice Sap list Palm Kernel Flakes and Hydrogenated PKO are very close to Soap Calc. Sap value from SC is .178 and Soap Calc is using .176 NaOH, that is a very minimal difference. If you are comparing PKO versus the Hydrogenated or Flakes there is a difference. Regular PKO is .144 Sap for NaOH. In the past I used Flakes with absolutely no problems with soap calc. What is the Sap Value the Mobile version is using and do you have the actualy SAP value for your Hydrogenated PKO? Soap is really much more forgiving that many soapers like to believe
 

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