Palm Free!!

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Anthony0327

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Hello,

So I have been wanting to switch from using Palm and stay away from it. Does anyone know of any good Palm free recipes using Cocoa Butter, Castor Oil, Olive Oil, Shea butter and maybe even some RiceBran Oil or Sweet Almond Oil? I have tried to make a Palm free soap once and it is soft compared to what I make with Palm. I watch people on YouTube make soap without Palm and they have these really hard bars of soap when they cut it.

Thanks.
Anthony
 

MorpheusPA

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Alas. You would have found lard to an almost perfect replacement for palm. :)

You can step up the olive and coconut to make up the difference; the coconut will contribute to a harder bar faster, while the olive takes its own sweet time but does get rock hard eventually. The coconut will also help with the lather, since olive generally doesn't have much until well-aged.

You'd have to play with what you like, but if you're replacing 5 parts palm with 4 parts olive and 1 part coconut, that might be a place to start depending on your recipe...
 

earlene

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Soy wax makes for a very hard bar of soap. See the posts by member Saranac starting with post #58 in this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63560&page=6 The discussion about soywax lead me to try it in soap just last month. So far I am very pleased with how hard the bars are. It is still too early to start testing them, as they are not yet a month old. I made several recipes using 30% soy in one, changing out the oils of the 30% in others. My plan is to compare them for performance, etc. as they become older (I tend to prefer a longer cure.)

Saranac gives suggestions in that thread about the percentages to use and how to use it. Very useful information if you want an all vegetable product without palm.
 
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If animal fats aren't an option, you'll need to do some experimenting. :p There are some additives that increase bar hardness:

Vinegar: replacing a portion or all of your water with 5% acetic acid (household vinegar) will result in a harder bar. You'll need to add an extra lye (multiply the vinegar gram weight by .035, add that value in lye grams).

Salt: Salt is a lather-killer, but even adding 1 tsp salt PPO will result in a very hard bar. Sea salt and pickling salt are best. They should be dissolved in your water before you add your lye.

Hard/Brittle Oils: Adding more coconut/babassu/palm kernel oil to your recipe will increase hardness, solubility and bubbles, but can also be skin-stripping, so you'll need to adjust your superfat. Butters add hardness, but create more of a creamy lather than bubbly lather.

I recently tried a vinegar palm-free, coconut-free vegetarian recipe and posted about it here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=68757

I haven't tested out the bars yet, but I'm curious to see how the lather is in a couple weeks.
 
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dixiedragon

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Soy wax makes for a very hard bar of soap. See the posts by member Saranac starting with post #58 in this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63560&page=6 The discussion about soywax lead me to try it in soap just last month. So far I am very pleased with how hard the bars are. It is still too early to start testing them, as they are not yet a month old. I made several recipes using 30% soy in one, changing out the oils of the 30% in others. My plan is to compare them for performance, etc. as they become older (I tend to prefer a longer cure.)

Saranac gives suggestions in that thread about the percentages to use and how to use it. Very useful information if you want an all vegetable product without palm.

Sadly, if you are in the US, soy wax is no longer allowed to be used in food, so the prices are going up.

http://communitycandlesupply.com/blog/why-is-soy-wax-getting-more-expensive/

I make a soap that is 50% shea with a 2% superfat (I think 20% coconut, 5% castor and the rest in sunflower). It needs longer than 6 weeks to age but it is very nice.
 

Cellador

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My very first soap (recipe/ingredients/instructions were provided in a class) was palm free & vegan. It was a decent soap, but it definitely had more of the creamy, lotion-like lather. The recipe was roughly 15% butters, 55% O.O, and 30% CO.
Edit: I meant to add that it was pretty soft initially & was in the mold for 3 days. It took a good 6 weeks to cure but eventually became a nice solid bar of soap.
 
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I'm currently enjoying cocoa butter in an olive base soap, with coconut, castor and sugar in a dual lye soap for the bubble-ness. High cocoa can lead to "chocolate bloom", which is a fine white bloom from the cocoa that it gets from temperature changes (it doesn't affect soap any more than it affects chocolate). Cocoa butter isn't really a long-term cost effective replacement (the prices are going up sharply and there's some ivory coast considerations [that I won't be elaborating on]), but it is rather nice.
 

Kittish

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I've been largely palm free since I started, and am getting good results with using shea and/or cocoa butters as my hard oils (and I have mango and kokum now as well, and will start using them and see how it goes), along with 15-25% coconut oil. I cure my bars for 8 weeks, and so far every one of them has cured nice and hard, and is lasting well in use. It's been a couple of months, and I haven't gotten through the two bars in my shower yet (I'm about to switch them out anyway, I think, I want to try some of my other soaps on more than just hands).
 

dibbles

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Try coconut oil 20-25%, cocoa butter 10-15%. One thing about the youtubers cutting what seems to be hard bars is unless they say how long it's been since the soap was made, it could have been several days before they unmolded.
 

Saranac

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Just thought I'd pop in since my ears were ringing!

I very quickly skimmed through the old posts earlene mentioned, and aside from a glaring mistake in one of my post that I can't edit, I thought I'd update a few things:

1. These days, I start my formulating based on how much coconut and castor oil I want, and then I spit the remainder equally between soy wax and a soft oil. Essentially, I just mix equal parts of wax and liquid oil and call that my palm/tallow/lard replacement. It's just easier on the math. I have gone up to 40% soy and it doesn't give me any problem if I keep my temps in the 125-130F range.

2. I now soap with a 40% lye solution, and it still gives me little to no problem (unless is a finicky FO, but I have my work around for that).

3. I've dropped my SF from the 3-4% I was using. It works for me and I haven't gotten any complaints.

4. I've recently started adding a small amount of salt. It's still early, but I'm liking what it does to the hardness.

I might be forgetting something, but I'll end there none-the-less. I'm into my 3rd year <<I think>> with soy wax. Prices have gone up slightly, but I think it's still a great option for an animal- and palm-free bar.

Oh--MorpheusPA and I recently had a PM conversation about soy wax. What I use is labelled as Partially Hydrogenated, but it comes in a bag as flat-and-brittle pieces. We're both of the opinion that if it's not fully hydrogenated, it's pretty dang close!
 

MorpheusPA

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Oh--MorpheusPA and I recently had a PM conversation about soy wax. What I use is labelled as Partially Hydrogenated, but it comes in a bag as flat-and-brittle pieces. We're both of the opinion that if it's not fully hydrogenated, it's pretty dang close!

I remember that and yes, anything that sits in flakes in a bag on my shelf is close to a hundred percent hydrogenated. :)

Buy some now; prices are already going absolutely insane as it and its partially hydrogenated cousins are removed from foods. What this is going to mean for our shortening users (even I use one that contains 3% partially hydrogenated soybean oil), I don't know.
 

SoapEh

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I think you're probably going to have to experiment :D
I am personally a HUGE fan of palm oil -- I know it's controversial, so I look for the sustainable, ethically sourced oils, but I have experimented like mad and I think there is a reason that it's a biggie in soapmaking. It makes great soap. That said, if you are wanting to go completely palm-free, I find that a fairly high olive oil soap with butters and some coconut oil actually blend together to make a really lovely soap.
 

Jenn

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Keep in mind im a newbie but i made a 70% olive oil, 30% coconut oil and it has an amazing lather its a surprisingly hard bar (cut 72 hohrs after making, i let it sit for 24 hous out of the mold before cutting). Its only 4 weeks old but im excited to see how age affects it. I also did a 20% shea, 30% coconut oil, 10% castor and 40% olive (same day as the previous) this one has moderate bubbles but is so creamy and luxurious im hoping with age it will bubble more, both were 10% superfatted due to my extremely dry skin (and I've never used that much coconut oil aside from a 100% with 20% supee fat that literally burned when i used it). I also tried a coconut milk soap 15 % cocoa butter 25% coconut and 60% olive but its still slimey (3 months later).
 
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Dean

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This is my stnd recipie.

U can use butters instead of SW for hardness/longevity but butters r much more expensive. CB is harder than shea so u need less. If u buy refind the amt per recipie is pretty much unlimited becuase refined has less unsaponfiables which have been contibuted to softness and reduced lather.

There is also @Zany_in_CO no slime castile bar.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/
 
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Loralei

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I've been playing with the same idea.. using cocoa and shea butters, avocado oil, CO, rice bran, stearic acid, and??? (Just woke up, recipe is in studio, but I'll look for it)..

I recall that the recipe had good hardness, but it was soo soft! I used the suggestionfrom @amd for 1% SA, and am still waiting on the cure - it's definitely getting harder, and my test piece has great lather.

I think that I will try adding sodium lactate next time, to see if it makes a difference..
 
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...1. These days, I start my formulating based on how much coconut and castor oil I want, and then I spit the remainder equally between soy wax and a soft oil. Essentially, I just mix equal parts of wax and liquid oil and call that my palm/tallow/lard replacement. It's just easier on the math. I have gone up to 40% soy and it doesn't give me any problem if I keep my temps in the 125-130F range...

This is my stnd recipie. ...

Dean, I had a peek at your recipe, and it looks like you have independently arrived at a recipe that follows @Saranac's ratio's :)
 
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I didn't copy. I swear! Took me 9 mos to birth that pup.

Glad to know there is corroborating evidence for a successful recipe.
I watched you work your way through a whole lot of variations before you arrived at the recipe you posted, so I know you worked hard to create your recipe! :)

It was more noting that the two of you have independently arrived at the same working formula :)

Corroborating evidence :D
 

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