Oven hot process, sodium lactate, and herbal colorants--Qs

[soap_rat]

Hi, everyone:

I've made CP soap for several years (just a few batches a year) and I've switched to oven hot-process. (so I can use less EO, don't have to wait for cure, and so at least my green plant additives keep their color.)

In letting the finished soap cool so my EO would not flash off, I found it thickened so much I could barely get it in the Pringles can (my favorite mold). I found out about sodium lactate (here, probably), got some powder, and I've used it two times at 2%

Both times I used the sodium lactate, it helped a lot with keeping the soap more fluid, but it still gets sort of crumbly when I let it cool for the EOs. Most especially the last few ounces of soap out of the pot. I do stir things to try to keep things mixed, but the last stuff doesn't really meld together and chunks will fall off later. (I often make just a couple of pounds at a time, so I'd like it to all be nice, usable soap). The 2nd try I used extra water in the recipe, and I don't think it helped, or not much.

So, my questions:
to solve this, should I increase my Sod lactate amount, or try more initial water? Or, could I blend in water when the soap is done and cooling, to keep it more fluid/non crumbly, and if that works, would that lead to too much shrinkage?

Also, I was disappointed to find that my lavender buds still turned brown in the finished soap. Finished soap is still too alkaline. I've read that pink or red petals or leaves may turn purple at the pH of finished soap, so I'm gathering some pink petals to try, just to have some pretty purple bits in the soap. Has anyone played around with colors this way?


Thanks!

 

[holly99]

I can definitely say I don't like to add too much water. I added too much water initially one time and my bars have warped so bad and they are still soft a couple of months later. I won't ever do that again. I don't know about adding water at the end, unless you deducted it from your original amount.

I've had good luck with sodium lactate but I've learned that you have to pour it right away or it just comes gloppy as if I hadn't used it. I personally wouldn't use much more sodium lactate. Are you taking the temp at the end to make sure you're adding your EO's as soon as possible?

 

[soap_rat]

Hi, Holly99:

I was watching and waiting for the soap to be 110 deg, and it seemed stuck at 120 for awhile. I smooshed it around into a doughnut-like shape in the pan to cool faster, and it dropped to 105 really fast. I immediately mixed in the EO and crammed it into the mold. The soap definitely is more "workable" even at 120. I only scented half the batch, and the spooning of the first half at a higher temperature went easily.

I was using 5-fold orange, which flashes at 116, which is why I wanted 110 before adding it.

Thanks for your comments on water and Sodium lactate content.

 

[IrishLass]

I always use 3% Sodium Lactate in all my HP batches as well as 1 tbsp sugar ppo. It works great. I always get a nice, jam-like consistency at pour, as opposed to a mashed potato-like consistency. For a water amount for my HP, I use a 27% lye solution.

I think the thing that is throwing a wrench into your batter consistency at pour is having to cool your batch down so low in order to accomodate your low flashpoint EO. I would try to find some with higher flashpoints, or else CP them. I always make it a point to make sure that all the scents that I HP with have a flashpoint of at least 160 to 200, because I've found that the lower the temp, the harder the batter gets and the more difficult it is to pour- even with SL and sugar.

HTH!
IrishLass

 

[soap_rat]

Thanks for your info and thoughts, Irishlass.

I was using 38% lye--that was the default on Soapcalc, so I went with it. I haven't calculated what % the extra water took me to, maybe 30 or so. So, I could possible add a little more water. Do you get a lot of shrinkage with your water amount?

Does the sugar do the same thing as sodium lactate?

I did get a much better result on a night after I made this thread. Sigh...in the batch I wrote about here, I think I was just burning my tongue on the soap, and thinking I was getting zapped. So I baked that stuff a long time, resulting in thicker soap. I remember now that zapping is really a jolt, and I wasn't getting a jolt. I actually have pH paper, but if I think it looks done, I do the tongue test first. Obviously I should have done the pH paper as the first step!

In the newer batch, I guess I accidentally let the soap cool enough to not burn me, and was surprised at how quickly the soap was complete. I made a 6-pringles-can batch (12 lbs), and I weighed out 2lbs of soap at a time into a pyrex dish on the cold floor--so the main batch stayed warm, and only what I was about to scent cooled off. The soap stayed so much more workable, not really jam-like, but thick cake batter maybe. Then getting into different thicknesses of mashed potatoes as the main pot cooled. The last 2 lbs was pretty stiff.

I'm not sure how hot cold process will get as the reaction occurs, but I think it may be enough to mess up the low-flash oils anyway. It's gotten hot enough to make the can liner bubble out from the side, and make soap flow out of the can! I really want some orange scent that will last, so I'd hoped hot process would do that for me.

Is there a list of EOs and their flashpoints somewhere? That would save me a lot of clicking around when I'm planning a batch. With that 12 lb batch, I just cooled everything to 110, so I wouldn't have to look up every oil in all those blends.

Oh, and I can report that hibiscus flowers, pink rose petals, and pink peppercorns do not look nice after being mixed into completed oven-process soap. Dulce, which is a lavender...seaweed? still looks lavender after 2 days.