Obsidian
Well-Known Member
I don't use silicone log molds but I do have a very thick single cavity mold I do CPOP in. I've gotten surface bubbles but usually only when its on the verge of getting too hot.
outside bubbles on my CPOP?
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JustBeachy
Well-Known Member
Actually to me, that would lead more credence to the theory. As the chemical reactions of lesser silicone would reduce as the liner "seasoned". It would seem reasonable that the new silicone could release it's chemical reactions to the heat on the first few uses, then harden,(for lack of a better term).
Have you ever overheated a silicon spatula? You know to the point where it looses all it's rigidness and goes all limp. I've done it a couple of times making Roux. The when the spatula cools, it becomes harder and less flexible.
I might have to buy a liner from ED to test this. CPOP a soap in it brand new, see if I can get the bubbles. Then just bake the liner in a 170F oven for a bit, let it cool, then repeat a couple of times. Then try another CPOP in it.
I've used silicone liners and molds for the past two years, I've never gotten the bubbles from the BrambleBerry liner or the WSP Log Liner, but I don't CPOP log molds. I had a batch with the same look from a freshware decorative loaf mold, that was goat milk, and left on the counter without anything to keep the heat in. From my research at the time the dots were caused by a sudden shift in temp. My loaf looked like the first photo, but not like the photo IrishLass posted.
denisedh
Member
Well - I really am appreciative of the attention this mold is getting. As a first time soaper I am truly baffled and haven't made another loaf since - after all, it's the only real mold I have! I do have the cardboard box it came in, which I converted into a mold and plan on lining with my freezer paper and making a loaf (not CPOP)
I think JustBeachy is right when she says it is from overheating. I feel like the ED silicone is the "cheaper" lower heat tolerant silicone type. I would like to try preheating it, putting the soap into it, wrapping it instead of putting it back into the oven and seeing what happens.
I do not want to waste my money and supplies on batches that need to be planed off!
Thanks everyone again!!
denise
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navigator9
Well-Known Member
I don't blame you, you shouldn't have to waste any of your soap by planing it off. If the problem really is caused by a super hot gel phase, preheating the mold and then wrapping it in towels instead of putting it in the oven, may solve the problem. If it's caused by the particular silicone itself, it shouldn't make a difference. Might be worth a shot, just to find out.
I would also contact the supplier, with photos, and ask if they have any idea what causes the bubbles and what to do about them. Who knows, they may be aware of the problem and have a solution. Good luck to you!
Of course, it doesn't have to planed off/wasted - it's still perfectly usable soap even with the bubbles. After a few uses they will be smoothed out anyway and I think your family/friends would be very happy to get the soap regardless
Ditto what Gent said^^^. None of my planed-off, bubbly surfaces get wasted. I just smoosh them all up like one would do with clay, and then I press them into decorative MilyWay-type molds to make pretty, guest-size bars out of them.
IrishLass
IrishLass
denisedh
Member
I am such a Newbie!
I have studied and read and read and watched so many youtube (great!!) and have heard soap makers say they save every piece for drop in pieces, guest and rebatching but totally forgot it when it came to "my soap"
Thanks for the reminders you guys!! (IrishLass too!)
denise
I have studied and read and read and watched so many youtube (great!!) and have heard soap makers say they save every piece for drop in pieces, guest and rebatching but totally forgot it when it came to "my soap"
Thanks for the reminders you guys!! (IrishLass too!)
denise
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navigator9
Well-Known Member
Ditto what Gent said^^^. None of my planed-off, bubbly surfaces get wasted. I just smoosh them all up like one would do with clay, and then I press them into decorative MilyWay-type molds to make pretty, guest-size bars out of them.
IrishLass
Absolutely, but.....silicone liners are not cheap, and when you spend the money, with the expectation of getting smooth surfaces on your soap, you shouldn't have to put up with less. I would still contact the supplier for their input and suggestions. If I were a supplier, I would want to hear from my customers if they weren't happy, instead of just not buying from me anymore. If this is a common problem, and it seems to be, they may have a work-around.
100%! Which is one of the reasons why I use paper. Sure, I forgot once and had a mad panic folding the liners for my two moulds, but rather that than some of the issues people have with the silly-cone ones
boyago
Well-Known Member
Seems to me like the molds that make the bubbles may be off gassing. This makes sense to me because the heat involved would in CPOP as well a hot gel would speed this up and it seems to happen to new molds that haven't been broken in. Of course the type of silicone as well as the manufacturing process would also have an effect. Curious also to know the country of origin on the molds this happens with. Maybe a languorous journey from china and trips to and from warehouses give the products more time to off gas out. I haven't had this happen though I don't use my silcones much but they have all been bought second hand with the exception of my individual bar molds and my cupcake molds.
I too advise inquiring with ED since they may have some tips for you. I have one of their natural/white ED silicone molds, and have never gotten bubbling after gelling in a warmed oven that was turned off before placing the mold in there. My typical procedure is to turn on the oven to Warm/170 for a short time (minute or two?), turn the oven off, and pop my filled mold inside. I don't know the actual temp inside the oven but I don't usually leave the temp up so long that the oven beeps to indicate that it is fully preheated. The heating element is not red when I put the soap in. I turn on the oven light to help keep the temp up, and have done this at various points in time, but usually within 15 minutes of putting the soap in the oven. I do not preheat the mold like many people talk of doing with their silicone molds, which also might make a difference.
Maybe my method is short of a true CPOP, but it does encourage gelling, which I think helps dry up/firm up the soap quicker so I can unmold from the silicone within 24 hours. I also typically use a 2:1 water discount for the same reason. It seems like water amount could also influence bubbling; something to consider.
The mold I am talking about is the popular natural/white one that ED advertises with the basket; it is not really a liner but a semi-rigid mold. I don't have a basket, but instead support the mold with the cardboard box that the mold came in (I put cardboard and all into the oven; I tape the flaps shut to cover the mold). I bought the mold in Dec 2013. I also have one of their red molds but I don't think I've put that one in the oven yet. It may act differently since darker colors absorb more heat and hold heat longer.
Hopefully there is enough detail there to see some potential differences, and get ideas for avoiding the bubbles. Good luck, and please post back if you figure anything out.
Maybe my method is short of a true CPOP, but it does encourage gelling, which I think helps dry up/firm up the soap quicker so I can unmold from the silicone within 24 hours. I also typically use a 2:1 water discount for the same reason. It seems like water amount could also influence bubbling; something to consider.
The mold I am talking about is the popular natural/white one that ED advertises with the basket; it is not really a liner but a semi-rigid mold. I don't have a basket, but instead support the mold with the cardboard box that the mold came in (I put cardboard and all into the oven; I tape the flaps shut to cover the mold). I bought the mold in Dec 2013. I also have one of their red molds but I don't think I've put that one in the oven yet. It may act differently since darker colors absorb more heat and hold heat longer.
Hopefully there is enough detail there to see some potential differences, and get ideas for avoiding the bubbles. Good luck, and please post back if you figure anything out.
JustBeachy
Well-Known Member
To me this technique would prevent bubbles from forming, because your staying within the heat limits of general use silicone.
The non baking silicone has a temperature rating up to 150. The baking rated silicones are 150 to 200, with the true baking silicone rated for temps at 400 and above.
I did a test on my oven tonight. Heated it to 170, measured with a digital baking thermometer. Then opened the oven long enough to simulated putting a mold in, and adjusting. In the few seconds it took to open the door, put in the mold and then close the door, my oven dropped to 149F.
So if you're not getting the oven up to temperatures above 150F or so, your molds probably are not reacting. Just a guess, since I haven't ordered some of these liners yet to test them. I'll do it after this week.
My assumption, the people posting on here with the problems, as well as those that don't have problems, are all using basically the same general recipes. The liners, don't bubble unless they are CPOP'd. But not all liners bubble. Some stop bubbling after a couple of uses.
The only two real variables I see, are different suppliers/liners and different temperatures. To me the idea that it's the type of silicone used, and the temperature affect on certain types of silicone, has to be considered as the leading candidate for the bubbles.
I'm ordering the liners from ED and one from woodfields. Then also sending out some requests for the types of silicone used in the molds from a couple of other vendors as well. I'll let you know what I find. Hopefully, I can reproduce some bubbles. Imagine that, trying to get my soap to mess up.
boyago
Well-Known Member
Hopefully, I can reproduce some bubbles. Imagine that, trying to get my soap to mess up.
I actually like the look of IrishLass' extreme example and might do that on purpose on occasion if I knew how.
^^^I do too. And apparently I have everything I need to do it
I did one soap in a silicone liner that looks like it has a rind. I trimmed it off a couple, then decided I liked the effect.
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Beachy has a great theory. I mean, maybe I'm being juvenile here, but the bubbles are going into the soap, and not coming out from the soap lending to the theory of gasses from lower heat resistant silicone being heated up and releasing out towards soap. Either way, I've read several people with ed molds who have had this occur. Great eye opening discussion! I'd be irritated personally, but the bubble look could work for you if you rolled with it. It is reminiscent of the bubble wrap bee hive look, just not as deep.
denisedh
Member
I'm making soap today in the same mold - but not CPOP-ing. I haven' called ED but plan to this afternoon (east coast here).
As for my bubble experience digression - ha - I bet my oven went down to 149 or less very quickly because I opened it to cover the top with foil one time. It was definitely not over 170 degrees to start with because I have levels below 200 that are easy to judge.
I want to CpOP again so i hope we can solve this - appreciate all the help!!
denise
As for my bubble experience digression - ha - I bet my oven went down to 149 or less very quickly because I opened it to cover the top with foil one time. It was definitely not over 170 degrees to start with because I have levels below 200 that are easy to judge.
I want to CpOP again so i hope we can solve this - appreciate all the help!!
denise
TVivian
Well-Known Member
So just as I predicted, my soap got the bubbles with my brand new crafters choice mold. (First time using it) I did Not Cpop... Just left it out on the counter and still got the bubbles. If you look in the background you can see my 2 older molds that are "seasoned" I no longer get bubbles with those. ::weird::
The nice thing is that once the bars are sliced, the bubbles are hardly noticeable.
denisedh
Member
That is weird to me - but I'm having weird problems of my own - and not bubbles. Another thread is needed and I am searching right now for answers.
I have not CPOP ed again but did make other batches in the mold that bubbled - they turned out totally bubble less - perfect - so I'm sure it is the CPOP heat process that made it bubble.
My problems now - measuring/ loaf not filled to the top/ math I guess....I'm working on it! Newbie problems!
I have not CPOP ed again but did make other batches in the mold that bubbled - they turned out totally bubble less - perfect - so I'm sure it is the CPOP heat process that made it bubble.
My problems now - measuring/ loaf not filled to the top/ math I guess....I'm working on it! Newbie problems!
