Optiphen/Optiphen Plus - won't work without glycerin

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itunu

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Anyone that makes an all oil scrub - if you use Optiphen or Optiphen Plus, for the preservative to work I've been advised to include 1-2% glycerin in my formula - Mark Fuller (a cosmetic chemist from chemistscorner) - see - https://www.facebook.com/groups/makingskincare/430562887069541/?notif_t=group_comment
Reason he gave: Phenoxyethanol contained in Optiphen and Optiphen Plus is water soluble so to get it into the oils we need to dissolve it into some glycerin (1-2% total formula - not too much otherwise the sugar will dissolve). Then the glycerin will disperse into the oils.

Thought I'd post this here in case anyone might benefit.
 
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Thanks for sharing the tip! I use another preservative for emulsified scrubs but it would be interesting to try this advice. I would be happy to only have to buy one preservative.

However, I'm wondering how stable the glycerin would be in an oil scrub since it isn't oil soluble. I'll have to go view what Mark Fuller said because I don't understand how well it would disperse in oil. Wouldn't it separate out?

Of course, I'm not a chemist so there's probably a scientific explanation for it. Also, it's kind of a moot point for me since I don't care for oil scrubs which is why I only make emulsified ones.
 

itunu

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Hi Hazel - Good point. I don't think the chemist considered whether the scrub was emulsified or not - he was giving general advice on a "normal" scrub. He just said that because one of the ingredients is water soluble that we should solubilise it in glycerin. Maybe he is assuming with just 1% there won't be an issue incorporating it into the scrub? But I take your point.
 
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I tried the link and it's a closed FB page so I couldn't read what he said. It's all right. I can blend a small amount of oil with some glycerin and see what happens. It's still a great idea for emulsified scrubs since the emulsifier would keep the glycerin incorporated.
 

itunu

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Hi Hazel

A small amount of oil won't blend in with the glycerin due to the proportions.

In the scrub, a very large amount of oil with a tiny amount of glycerin should blend in more as there's a high oil ratio to glycerin. The sugar might also help too.
 
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I wasn't planning on using a small amount of oil - more like the amount I would use if I was going to make an oil scrub. I would use it later for soap or possibly a lotion. I still believe glycerin would separate from oil no matter what the ratio because of the solubility issue but only if these were the only two ingredients. I figured it out once I thought it through more - had a "doh" moment. The sugar would keep the glycerin from separating out.

eta:

I checked in my notes and then double checked by reading about preservatives on Swift's blog. Preservatives manufactured for hydrous products will not work correctly in anhydrous products. So, I'll stick with Phenonip or Liquipar for emulsified scrubs.

Some links:

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2011/07/questions-preserving-scrubs.html
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2013/04/weekend-wonderings-using-water-soluble.html
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2010/10/preservatives-water-activity-and.html
 
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jcatblum

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Always something new to learn in soap making. NG recipe for emulsified scrub uses Optiphen, but I believe it is the only preservative they sell. WSP recipe uses Phenonip.

I had been reading up on optiphen this wk. Since I am about to make my first batch of soapy sugar scrubs. As seen here
http://mayren.blogspot.com/2010/10/mayrens-12345-sugar-scrub-cube-recipe.html
I wanted to use up my uglies & end pieces.
 

jcatblum

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Thanks for those links Hazel, I don't think I have seen them before. I have a friend that does Arbonne & she got me hooked on using their Awaken scrub on my legs to shave with. It is amazing! Been using it for at least 4 yrs, going to do my best to find a scrub I can create & use in the same way.
 
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Yikes! Arbonne is expensive; at least, I think it's expensive. Do you still have a jar so you know what the ingredients are in the scrub? You might be able to create something similar or even better.
 

jcatblum

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Yikes! Arbonne is expensive; at least, I think it's expensive. Do you still have a jar so you know what the ingredients are in the scrub? You might be able to create something similar or even better.

I didnt want to hijack the thread, sorry! Ýes, product is pricey, but thankfully I just trade fresh eggs for arbonne. The ingredients are listed as primarily avocado & sweet almond oil on the website, (I don't know if the product has been revamped) but on the bottle the ingredients are
Sea Salt, Safflower Oil, crambe abyssinica seed oil, passiflora edulis seed oil, Avacodo Oil, sclerocarya seed birrea oil, tocopherol, acetate, lemon peel oil, coriander seed oil, musk, rose flower oil, citral, limonene, linalool

See why Arbonne is so expensive? Good ingredients contribute to the cost. I figure I love the oil scrub factor shaving my legs, so I will start there before dropping $100+ in search of the ingredients. It is good to know the amazing scent has coriander oil in it, not an essential oil I ever would have reached for.
 
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@ itunu -

I'm sorry! I didn't mean to hijack the thread, either. I have a bad tendency of wandering off a subject. I'm afraid I'm going to wander a little further with the Arbonne discussion. :oops:

See why Arbonne is so expensive? Good ingredients contribute to the cost.

Is it tocopherol, acetate or tocopherol acetate?

I agree good ingredients contribute to the cost but Arbonne's price is based on brand name and marketing since they'd be able to get a much better price on bulk supplies. I'm not saying this to denigrate their products and I understand the expense of mass marketing. Those are very nice oils with high vitamin content, good absorbancy and have long shelf lives. Plus I wish I could come up with a scrub and be able to sell it for $30 for 16 oz (or whatever it sells for). I think it's great you can get it by bartering.

They may list the scrub as primarily avocado oil and sweet almond oil but when you break down the ingredients list, you'll see these are not the primary oils especially since sweet almond oil isn't even on the list. Are you sure this is the complete list? Sweet almond oil should be shown as Prunus amygdalus dulcis.

The bulk of the product is sea salt followed by Safflower oil, Abyssinian oil, Maracuja oil, Avocado oil, Marula oil, Vitamin E and the rest I'd say is more for fragrance than any potential skin benefit.

So the primary oil is safflower. Not that it's an issue because it is inexpensive and I like it combined with rice bran oil in lotions. I've even used it in soap and thought it was nice. However, I prefer sunflower oil since then I only buy one oil instead of two oils.

As for the Abyssinian, Maracuja and Marula oils, they are more expensive and possibly would be difficult to find at a reasonable price. It's just my opinion but I wouldn't use these oils in scrubs. I'd use them in a facial serum or lotion. Soaper's Choice carries Abyssinian oil but I do consider it an expensive oil since it would work out to be approximately .63 an ounce if I bought it. However, I don't consider this an unreasonable price if I really wanted to buy it; although the initial outlay would be costly. I used to buy avocado oil but it's another oil which I stopped buying after comparison in what qualities it brought to lotions and soap. This just personal preference since I know many people love avocado oil.

All I'm saying is you could research the properties of the oils and make a similar scrub. On the other hand, you wouldn't have to since you're able to get the scrub just for the price of eggs. :thumbup:
 

jcatblum

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Is it tocopherol, acetate or tocopherol acetate?

It list tocopherol & tocopherol acetate -- sorry, I must have lost my place in the list when typing!
When I typed out the list I googled other names for sweet almond oil since I kept thinking I was missing something.
Abyssinian Seed Oil can be purchased at lotion crafter in smaller quantities. Might be a splurge for myself, but not a ingredient I would use regularly.
 
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Not a problem. It's hard to read small print and type the words. I just wondered about the comma between the words and if you really meant tocopherol acetate. I've seen Abyssinian oil on the lotioncrafters site and it is a better price than at theherbarie.com but I'm not sure if I'd buy it. I'd have to research the properties and then do a comparison. I know some oils are said to have a unique molecular structure but when it comes down to it, what benefits does this oil really have compared to another? It makes me wonder if this is another marketing fad to promote a product. I've seen different oils over the years touted as "the wonder oil", the greatest for your skin, etc. Then the promotion fades away and a new oil is promoted as the best one for skin. I don't trust information from sites which are trying to sell a product since the main agenda is to get your money in their pocket. Yes, sadly I have gotten cynical. :(

So, it doesn't list sweet almond oil at all? If it doesn't, then this is false advertising. BTW, I noticed the ingredient list wasn't written in accordance to INCI regulations. I would have expected better compliance from a large company like Arbonne.
 

jcatblum

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So, it doesn't list sweet almond oil at all? If it doesn't, then this is false advertising. BTW, I noticed the ingredient list wasn't written in accordance to INCI regulations. I would have expected better compliance from a large company like Arbonne.

I know the jar I pulled out is over a yr old, so I wonder if they changed their formula & now have sweet almond oil in it like their website states. There is not any almond oil of any type on the jar I have. The oil names as we know them (like avocado oil) were in parenthesis next to the required name. So when I typed it out I took short cuts & only listed the common name.
 
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That explains it. I was a bit surprised that Arbonne wouldn't use INCI names. Also, as you said, maybe the ingredients for the scrub has changed. This seems more of a probablilty than if Arbonne was advertising something which wasn't an ingredient. I'd be interested to hear if they've subbed SAO for one of the more exotic oils.
 
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I wondered about the descriptions of the ingredients enough that I got off my rear and dug out some of my books. Since the books are old and new things are discovered every day, I decided to google for info after not finding anything which corroborated their information. After researching the oils identified as “conditioners”, I wrote an extensive reply but after re-reading, I decided not to post it. I didn’t want to get Arbonne ticked off at me.

I did find this info which I found mildly entertaining.
 

jcatblum

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Hazel it pains me to admit even though I can't find any other evidence of Cumin Oil serving as a conditioner I do still love the final product. And to be totally honest I love the detox line too. Maybe if I stew on the the questionable things I found in the ingredients list I may change my mind. Kinda like the way I use to love Country Crock & even referred to it as butter. As I became more educated in my food my taste buds changed. Sometimes blinders are much easier to deal with than knowledge!
 
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There's nothing wrong with loving it. I love many of Dermalogica's products but I stopped buying them because they're so expensive. I'm sure Arbonne makes wonderful products. I might even have used a product or maybe more than one product years ago. I don't remember now if it was Arbonne or a similar company. As I mentioned earlier, perhaps they meant skin conditioning properties when they use the word "conditioner". Then again, maybe they're using the literal definition of conditioner. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conditioner

I can agree the addition of these ingredients would improve the quality or usability of the scrub. I just think some of the descriptions of the ingredients are ambiguous. This is only my opinion and since they're describing them as such, then it's definitely not an issue and I shouldn't let it bother me.
 

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