Opinions on this hand cream please

Discussion in 'Bath and Body Forum' started by Sonya-m, Jul 4, 2016.

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  1. Jul 4, 2016 #1

    Sonya-m

    Sonya-m

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    A friend of mine has a friend that has just started making and selling products including this hand cream.

    My friend is hosting a party to sell these products. The info claims all products are 100% natural with no harmful chemicals.

    What are your opinions on these claims and the info & ingredients on the packaging

    ImageUploadedBySoap Making1467665740.986811.jpg
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    ImageUploadedBySoap Making1467665761.329264.jpg
     
  2. Jul 4, 2016 #2

    DeeAnna

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    Oh, dear. Yet another lotion that has no effective, broad spectrum preservative and no chemical emulsifier.

    The benzoin is the supposed preservative, but I'd hardly say it's a safe or effective choice without careful formulation. See this article and this one.

    The beeswax is the apparent emulsifier. Except it's not an emulsifier; it's a thickener if not used with borax. No thickener can reliably keep a water-oil mixture properly emulsified.

    This person is a UK manufacturer --I wonder if this product has gone through the proper assessment process.

    I'd like to know what "virgin" beeswax is. I keep bees and have never seen that term used before.
     
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  3. Jul 4, 2016 #3

    Arimara

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    She doesn't seem to have done enough research to adequately make a proper, stable and safe emulsified cream. Beeswax alone will not truly emulsify; you need to either use a proper emulsifier or add some borax to that recipe to make a passable cream.

    It also would help her to procure and use a preservative. I don't know if you guys can use Optiphen Plus but it's a stellar paraben-free preservative. If it did not exist, knowing what I know now, I would rather use a product with parabens if it meant not having a moldy cream.

    I don't know UK laws but over here, she would be shut down if the FDA caught wind of that description. A cream that makes you look 15 yrs younger? if it exists, keep it away from me or people would really think my daughter and I are sisters. I finally aged to the point where I don't get carded as much as when I was in my 20s. But alas, I blame genetics for my plight.
     
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  4. Jul 5, 2016 #4

    Dana89

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    Yeah, the problems are probable mold growth (unless she is using a preservitive and is not putting it on the label) seperating as Arimara pointed out and HEALS and REPAIRS skin are drug claims in the US. I don't know about the U.K.
    You can ignore it and not go or school her on the rules, either option could upset someone, I am a non-confrontationalist so I would duck duck out with an excuse but I really get irritated at stuff like that.
    The loss of one persons customer could result in the loss of future customer for an honest seller.
     
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  5. Jul 5, 2016 #5

    Dahila

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    What's "Virgin Beeswax" ?
    Mold and bacteria will start to grow as soon as she finishes it. Sonya do not take the creams from her, she does not know what she is doing
     
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  6. Jul 5, 2016 #6

    The Efficacious Gentleman

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    I agree - ask her for a copy of the safety assessment on it. I can't see that being approved based on the EU laws
     
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  7. Jul 5, 2016 #7

    cmzaha

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    Her recipe also contains a lot of bug food. I have started using a dual preservative system in my lotions, since I am really paranoid about the possibility of fungus, mold and bacteria. I cannot believe it could pass any EU assessments, but I do not live in the UK and really do not know the laws, only what I have read here and on other forums about the stringent laws.
     
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  8. Jul 5, 2016 #8

    The Efficacious Gentleman

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    I also can't find anything online about them - website under construction and no Facebook site.

    Edit to ask - is there a batch number on the tub? Product life from being opened? Approximate weight properly marked? If not, I would say it is not conforming in general with the regs
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  9. Jul 5, 2016 #9

    DeeAnna

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    Beeswax trivia -- From what I can tell, "virgin" beeswax is a term not often used by beekeepers. One researcher used the name to describe the small bits of wax made by bees before this wax is fashioned into comb. Another meaning I found is beeswax that was made within the current year (less than 1 year old). Others use it for light colored comb that has contained only honey and not for the darker comb that has been used to raise baby bees (brood comb). Some seem to use this name for cappings wax (the pale layer of wax that seals off the top surface of honey comb). So "virgin beeswax" could be used to describe any recently made, pale colored beeswax, but there's not any consistency of use amongst people who do use the term.

    The ingredients list is not in INCI format, to pick yet another nit with this product, which is telling since I am pretty sure this product should have gone through assessment. The beeswax should be "cera alba" or "beeswax" and the "virgin" definitely needs to go.

    Plaintain -- is it plantain (plan-tayn) the banana-like fruit? Or is it plantain (plan-tin) the green leafy herb? Needs the INCI name to confirm which one. Ditto for marshmallow. I'm sure it's the herb, but it needs INCI to be correctly named. Even in the US, I would use INCI for this list as well as the common names.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
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  10. Jul 5, 2016 #10

    Sonya-m

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    There's a batch number and a best before date but from what you've all said there's zero chance of it getting to that date without growing fur!!

    ImageUploadedBySoap Making1467724106.031055.jpg
     
  11. Jul 5, 2016 #11

    The Efficacious Gentleman

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    It's not in the correct format - it should have the open jar symbol and a number of months, from my understanding of the rules.

    Edit to add - ask her for a copy of the assessment, that would be the best bet.
     
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  12. Jul 5, 2016 #12

    Arimara

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    Yea, that's about right. You'd be lucky to get a good week out of this stuff, assuming you were given it the same day it was made.
     
  13. Jul 5, 2016 #13

    shunt2011

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    That's so bad. Why do people think they are giving customers a quality product while not protecting them. So much misinformation on the net and not doing due diligence on research is the producers fault. So frustrating that her product may/could cause a serious infection or some other adverse effect. Hope she has good insurance.

    I would ask for her assessment like TEG suggested. That would tell all.
     
  14. Jul 5, 2016 #14

    Sonya-m

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    I've asked for the safety assessment. Turns out this girl doesn't make the products but buys them from another company but puts her own labels on.
     
  15. Jul 5, 2016 #15

    DeeAnna

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    Arrrggggghhhh!!!! <...shaking my head...>
     
  16. Jul 5, 2016 #16

    shunt2011

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    If that's the case I would let her know that what she's buying and putting her name on is not a good product and not safe. And that she should do some research herself to verify what you are telling her. Point her to Swiftcraftymonkey.

    Good luck with this!
     
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  17. Jul 5, 2016 #17

    Dahila

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    btw open jar 6, or 3, I had never gave a longer time after opening. DeeAnna I am pretty sure they have the same INCI rules in EU.

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  18. Jul 5, 2016 #18

    Sonya-m

    Sonya-m

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    So the answer to my request for the safety assessment? 'I'm having a computer nightmare and have lost it'

    This was from the company she is buying the goods from. She asked why I was asking so I explained I was interested in the preservatives being used since I didn't see any listed on the website (the company she's buying from has a website). She told me the preservative is something called Preservative Eco (http://www.aromantic.co.uk/home/products/preservatives/preservative-eco.aspx) I explained that this doesn't appear on her ingredients list which she seemed surprised to hear!!

    I've told my friend she needs to tell the friend selling these products to ask for all the safety assessments but that she'll be lucky to get them!!
     
  19. Jul 5, 2016 #19

    The Efficacious Gentleman

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    If she is relabelling them, she still needs to be compliant in how it is done. Also, who is responsible at the end - as in, who put the entry on the cosmetic portal and created the batch number?* That person/company will be the one that will be tracked down in case something is wrong. That name needs to be somewhere on the label, so it is really dodgy and on shaky ground indeed.

    * this makes sense to those who know the EU regs. The cosmetic portal is not a sci-fi about make up!
     
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  20. Jul 5, 2016 #20

    Sonya-m

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    The label I sent is the relabelled product which is clearly non compliant since this Preserve Eco appears nowhere on the ingredient listing!!
     

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