Olive oil soap and itching

[Basil]

I've just experienced what I've been reading about on this forum and it has led to questions.. I made a castile soap about two years ago from a book recipe. I've used it before, but maybe not really put two and two together in the past, not noticing itch? I gave this soap to one of my daughters and mother. I've not heard any complaints. I'm at my mother's now and she had this same soap in her shower. Last night I used it and took a rather long shower....I noticed the soap's sliminess and after I got out, my itchiness! So it's morning, and I'm still itching. So, I asked my mother..do you itch with this? Nope. (she turned 90 yesterday!) I called my daughter..do you itch with this soap? Nope... I've used @Zany_in_CO no slime castile, using 10% coconut and 5% castor and had no itching, also no slime which is why I chose it for Christmas gifts this year. So my question is..why does 'castile' cause itching in some? It's not the myristic and lauric acids causing dryness, since there are none, right? I don't seem to have problems with coconut oil..yet..but I worry about others having problems. And I worry about clogged pipes with higher super fat. Am I going overboard with worry? Trying to find the perfect recipe for everyone?? I made a soap with cocoa butter and other oils, and I love it!! But then I read about it being pore clogging . I've tried kokum butter because I bought a ton since my husband breaks out in blisters with shea....but it's pricey.. but similar price to cocoa.... I think I'm getting off track..but back to olive oil soap.. why does it cause the itching? I guess I'll add another question..since I'm rambling, is this normal to worry so much about making soap that everyone can use?? Thanks so much for any answers and bearing with me. My family is beginning to think I'm crazy as they keep encourageing me to sell, and I can't bring myself to do it other than to give it away and ask "do you like it,do you like it?"

 

[cmzaha]

Some folks simply cannot use high Oleic Acid soaps or are allergic to OO soaps. Also, water hardness can make a difference. If you do not use chelators and have hard water soap can leave a scum/film on the skin which can cause itchiness.

I personally hate OO in soap and have not used it in many years. Also no offense to Zany but I found the no slime recipe not only did not stop slime but it came down with dos in less than 1 year. I always carried 1 unfragranced OO soap for customers that wanted it and cured it for a year. It never acquired DOS.

If you happen to find you have issues with High Oleic you would also want to be cautious of using high percentages of HO Canola or sunflower in soaps. I love and use both of those oils but keep them in the 20% range, using a tallow/lard or 40% palm (vegan recipe) in soaps. Unlike many, I have to keep lard less than 30% or I have DOS issue even using EDTA and Sodium Gluconate as my chelator combo. There is just one fits all answer to making a bar of soap. At least not in my opinion, and I have made a lot of soap.

 

[Basil]

Thank you @cmzaha . Now that you mention it, I hadn't thought about the hard water factor. We have well water where I live. I think it's still hard water as we do have some problems with scum, but my mother is in the city and her water is awful to me..very salty, so maybe that's part of the problem here that I'm noticing. (I"m still itching} I appreciate the info regarding HO canola /sunflower. Funny, because I autimatically keep the percentages down with those having noticed the linoleic acid was higher. I have not tried chelators yet, as I've still been reading up, but will try that next. I don't use animal fats, and the butters in a higher amount cause lower bubbles, right? I feel like I'm all over the map trying to figure out my top three maybe? How many recipes do you figure on settling on, or do you ever?

 

[Obsidian]

@Basil are you ok with using palm? It will give you the hardness of the butters without reducing lather and its much cheaper.
I myself use lard but palm would be my go to if lard wasn't available.

I'm another who can't do high HO, especially olive. I don't use it in my personal soap at all anymore. I prefer safflower or sunflower.

Butters also make me itch and coconut has to be low. I figure if a soap doesn't bother my skin, then most other people can use it to.
If someone doesn't like the soap I make, I just give them something else.

 

[GemstonePony]

Trying to find the perfect recipe is, I think, very normal. I don't know that you'll achieve it, since everyone has different lather preferences, and their skin has different needs. If your family loves Castile, I figure make Castile for your family. If they want to fund your soap habits, I see no harm in that.
Starting a small business, however, is SO much more work than just making soap and posting it online, with a lot of legal considerations and financial math. FWIW, getting pressured to sell by family seems to be common problem.
I don't use olive oil at all in my soap, and I'm one that also loves high butter recipes. They aren't my fastest cure and definitely benefit from some sugar and castor oil, but I love the lather.
Oh, and you mentioned cocoa butter clogging pores? It shouldn't do that as a soap. As a butter maybe, but if your SF is high enough to leave behind enough oil to clog your pores, it's too high! Unless you're allergic to cocoa, which would be another matter.
I also LOVE Sodium Glutamate as a chelator! My parents have softened water in their home, and I have very hard water in mine. I initially used only Citric Acid (turned Sodium Citrate), and my soap lathered much less and felt less luxurious and more tight at my place compared to theirs. Switched to Sodium Glutamate, and now it's as good at my place as theirs!

 

[AliOop]

There's nothing wrong with having several soap recipes for people with different skin needs.

For my personal soaps, I rarely use OO or palm (itchiness), and can stand a bit higher CO/PKO than others. I love high lard with some CO + a touch of AVO or sweet almond, shea, and castor the best. I like tallow when combined with lard, but not as much as the primary fat in the soap.

But I learned that many of my friends and family only like, but don't LOVE, the soap that my skin loves. Instead, they love my more "balanced" recipe:

40% lard (sub palm if vegan)
25% OO (or split with SAO or AVO)
20% CO (sub or split with PKO)
10% shea
5% castor

I use some form of sugar in all my recipes, and always used vinegar before I started master-batching my lye. Both recipes have really nice lather - just depends on what kind of lather is "nice" to you.

ETA: I just remembered that I tried RBO awhile back and people really commented on the nice lather. So I bought a jug and will be trying a bunch of soaps with that instead of OO. Probably will still split with some AVO or SAO because I do like how those feel.

 

[cmzaha]

Thank you @cmzaha . Now that you mention it, I hadn't thought about the hard water factor. We have well water where I live. I think it's still hard water as we do have some problems with scum, but my mother is in the city and her water is awful to me..very salty, so maybe that's part of the problem here that I'm noticing. (I"m still itching} I appreciate the info regarding HO canola /sunflower. Funny, because I autimatically keep the percentages down with those having noticed the linoleic acid was higher. I have not tried chelators yet, as I've still been reading up, but will try that next. I don't use animal fats, and the butters in a higher amount cause lower bubbles, right? I feel like I'm all over the map trying to figure out my top three maybe? How many recipes do you figure on settling on, or do you ever?

I retired this year from soapmaking. After a few years, I settled on my main vegan base and nonvegan base only changing the liquid oils at times. When selling labeling becomes pretty complicated if you constantly change your soaps and customers depend on consistency. I do/did make a high 57% shea facial bar that is wonderful after a long minimum 6-month cure. It lathers beautifully with only 12% CO. Although I will probably no longer make it since I destashed all my shea, I will just hoard the bars I have left. Just a hint Sorbitol at 1-1.1% per soap batch weigh help lather even better than sugar. I use it in all my soaps and I love the combo of EDTA and Sodium Gluconate at 0.5% each or as Gemstone Pony mentions just SG I would use it at 1% for hard water.

Tallow will add a nice creaminess to soap but will also up the cleansing number so you have to watch that. I use a higher percentage of tallow versus lard due to the DOS issues I have with lard. It took me a few years to work out the sweet spot for my tallow/lard combo.

 

[lsg]

Did you use FO or EO in your soap? Some people are allergic to certain FOs and EOs.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

is this normal to worry so much about making soap that everyone can use??

Yes. But I think it's more like "analyzing" than worrying. As @cmzaha mentioned, and I agree, it takes time, sometimes years, to reach that point where you can say "No more tweaking, this is it!"

How many recipes do you figure on settling on, or do you ever?

For personal use, the sky's the limit. It's just plain fun to try different things or to perhaps develop a formula for special needs such as acne, eczema, psoriasis, sensitive skin, etc.

For selling, it's best to perfect a basic formula that caters to your target customer or niche market, such as goat milk soaps. Then do "variations on a theme" with color and scent. To reinforce what @cmzaha said, "labeling becomes pretty complicated if you constantly change your soaps and customers depend on consistency." Although, to keep it interesting for you, making a limited edition soap, such as "Blooming Tulips" in Spring or "Autumn Harvest" in fall gives the customer something to look forward to.

 

[Basil]

@Basil are you ok with using palm?

I did buy RSPO palm and have made several recipes from it and like. Then I read more about it and I'm pretty mixed on that one, haven't decided. I think I was influenced by a book I have that uses everything but palm..I like the soap that comes from it tho...so you don't use any HO oils?

Trying to find the perfect recipe is, I think, very normal.
Thank you for that, I was beginning to think I was crazy and my family was thinking that as well...

"Starting a small business, however, is SO much more work than just making soap and posting it online, with a lot of legal considerations and financial math. FWIW, getting pressured to sell by family seems to be common problem"

Thank you for that as well. I keep telling my family it's a slow process and I've been going through the steps verrry slow lol.
"I don't use olive oil at all in my soap, and I'm one that also loves high butter recipes".

I'm finding out I like the high butters too...except what I've been using is cocoa and kokum....
"Oh, and you mentioned cocoa butter clogging pores? It shouldn't do that as a soap. As a butter maybe, but if your SF is high enough to leave behind enough oil to clog your pores, it's too high!"

Thank you! I don't remember where I read that...relief to know.
I'm going to try chelators next. I threw my mom's olive oil soap away and put out another bar I had given her with butters. Took a shower. No itching.

There's nothing wrong with having several soap recipes for people with different skin needs.

For my personal soaps, I rarely use OO or palm (itchiness), and can stand a bit higher CO/PKO than others. I love high lard with some CO + a touch of AVO or sweet almond, shea, and castor the best. I like tallow when combined with lard, but not as much as the primary fat in the soap.

But I learned that many of my friends and family only like, but don't LOVE, the soap that my skin loves. Instead, they love my more "balanced" recipe:

40% lard (sub palm if vegan)
25% OO (or split with SAO or AVO)
20% CO (sub or split with PKO)
10% shea
5% castor

I use some form of sugar in all my recipes, and always used vinegar before I started master-batching my lye. Both recipes have really nice lather - just depends on what kind of lather is "nice" to you.

ETA: I just remembered that I tried RBO awhile back and people really commented on the nice lather. So I bought a jug and will be trying a bunch of soaps with that instead of OO. Probably will still split with some AVO or SAO because I do like how those feel.

Thank you Alioop, that's reassuring. I'm thinking my family is similar to yours and the soap that seems more "balanced" as you say, are the ones they comment on. I started using RBO a few weeks ago after reading some of the threads here and am anxious to try. I'm also going to try sugar in my butter soaps, but was wondering is it even necessary with using goat milk? Seems like they lather pretty well ... but I also tend to like ALOT

I retired this year from soapmaking. After a few years, I settled on my main vegan base and nonvegan base only changing the liquid oils at times. When selling labeling becomes pretty complicated if you constantly change your soaps and customers depend on consistency. I do/did make a high 57% shea facial bar that is wonderful after a long minimum 6-month cure. It lathers beautifully with only 12% CO. Although I will probably no longer make it since I destashed all my shea, I will just hoard the bars I have left. Just a hint Sorbitol at 1-1.1% per soap batch weigh help lather even better than sugar. I use it in all my soaps and I love the combo of EDTA and Sodium Gluconate at 0.5% each or as Gemstone Pony mentions just SG I would use it at 1% for hard water.

Tallow will add a nice creaminess to soap but will also up the cleansing number so you have to watch that. I use a higher percentage of tallow versus lard due to the DOS issues I have with lard. It took me a few years to work out the sweet spot for my tallow/lard combo.

I saw that you had retired as I've been following you. One of the problems I came across, that you mentioned, was labels..I just print the logo, but hand write the ingredients for them. It takes hours since there are so many kinds. I'm understanding that. I'll remember sorbital..did you ever use stevia? I have a huge box of that from Sams club. I would love to use tallow only because of the cost (or lack of) but I'm a vegetarian and I can't seem to bring myself to do that. I keep trying to come up with butters and low cost..but that seems extremely challenging...

Did you use FO or EO in your soap? Some people are allergic to certain FOs and EOs.

No, I didn't. It was just a plain castile..no scent. The next day I showered with another bar I gave her with a mix of butters and oils AND small amount of clove (the pumpkin soap) and it was great and the itching stopped

Yes. But I think it's more like "analyzing" than worrying. As @cmzaha mentioned, and I agree, it takes time, sometimes years, to reach that point where you can say "No more tweaking, this is it!"


For personal use, the sky's the limit. It's just plain fun to try different things or to perhaps develop a formula for special needs such as acne, eczema, psoriasis, sensitive skin, etc.

For selling, it's best to perfect a basic formula that caters to your target customer or niche market, such as goat milk soaps. Then do "variations on a theme" with color and scent. To reinforce what @cmzaha said, "labeling becomes pretty complicated if you constantly change your soaps and customers depend on consistency." Although, to keep it interesting for you, making a limited edition soap, such as "Blooming Tulips" in Spring or "Autumn Harvest" in fall gives the customer something to look forward to.

Thank you @Zany_in_CO ! So reassuring.

To all of you, I just returned home from mom's so I wasn't able to reply sooner. But I appreciate all your experience and advice. I'm sorry I made this thread so long but I wanted to make sure I got it all in. I do tend to worry, but I should think of it as analyzing as Zany said. After I figure out some of the ones I want to narrow down to, I'd like to share and ask you what you think. Thanks again

 

[Obsidian]

@Basil I do use HO oils at 25% or less, anymore and it bothers my skin.

 

[Basil]

@Basil I do use HO oils at 25% or less, anymore and it bothers my skin.

Wow that’s really interesting. I’ve used olive oil and HO sunflower in other recipes at a higher percent and never noticed itching- but I never had itching with Castile either until at my moms... what’s kinda crummy is giving a soap you think is great to someone and then it isn’t to them.. for those reasons. I sent a lot of different soaps to my grandson in Saudi Arabia and one was Castile. I texted him today ( crazy you can do that!) and told him the Castile made me itch at “ grandmas” house so take note . He said he’d watch and “ let the other guys know”

 

[KiwiMoose]

I did buy RSPO palm and have made several recipes from it and like. Then I read more about it and I'm pretty mixed on that one, haven't decided. I think I was influenced by a book I have that uses everything but palm..I like the soap that comes from it tho...so you don't use any HO oils?


Thank you Alioop, that's reassuring. I'm thinking my family is similar to yours and the soap that seems more "balanced" as you say, are the ones they comment on. I started using RBO a few weeks ago after reading some of the threads here and am anxious to try. I'm also going to try sugar in my butter soaps, but was wondering is it even necessary with using goat milk? Seems like they lather pretty well ... but I also tend to like ALOT

I saw that you had retired as I've been following you. One of the problems I came across, that you mentioned, was labels..I just print the logo, but hand write the ingredients for them. It takes hours since there are so many kinds. I'm understanding that. I'll remember sorbital..did you ever use stevia? I have a huge box of that from Sams club. I would love to use tallow only because of the cost (or lack of) but I'm a vegetarian and I can't seem to bring myself to do that. I keep trying to come up with butters and low cost..but that seems extremely challenging...

No, I didn't. It was just a plain castile..no scent. The next day I showered with another bar I gave her with a mix of butters and oils AND small amount of clove (the pumpkin soap) and it was great and the itching stopped

Thank you @Zany_in_CO ! So reassuring.

To all of you, I just returned home from mom's so I wasn't able to reply sooner. But I appreciate all your experience and advice. I'm sorry I made this thread so long but I wanted to make sure I got it all in. I do tend to worry, but I should think of it as analyzing as Zany said. After I figure out some of the ones I want to narrow down to, I'd like to share and ask you what you think. Thanks again

Hi Basil - have we had the soy wax conversation yet? I cant remember. I use it for vegan soap that is also palm free. It’s also very cost-effective.
Re - labelling with ease. For a while there when I was still tweaking recipes, I would print out little cards with all my possible oil choices on it, then simply cross out the ones that weren’t included. Much easier than handwriting them all out one by one.

 

[Basil]

Hi @KiwiMoose , that’s a good idea about making the cards. I think I’ll try that. And yes, you did mention trying soy wax and I looked it up and started tweaking some recipes after reading more of your posts. Then I started thinking it might not work for me since I use goat milk and I keep the temperature lower. So, I never bought it. What do you think? Thanks!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Hi @KiwiMoose , that’s a good idea about making the cards. I think I’ll try that. And yes, you did mention trying soy wax and I looked it up and started tweaking some recipes after reading more of your posts. Then I started thinking it might not work for me since I use goat milk and I keep the temperature lower. So, I never bought it. What do you think? Thanks!

Depends how cold you soap I guess. My oils were 32 degrees the other day and it was still melted. I’ve never soaped that cool before.

 

[Basil]

@KiwiMoose I think I’ll try it. I soap between 85-90 F which would just barely get it in that range. I remember you had posted the type of soy wax you use, but have forgotten. I’ll look it up in past threads. I doubt I’ll try until after Christmas since it’s hectic here, but I’ll let you know. Thanks Kiwi!

 

[KiwiMoose]

@KiwiMoose I think I’ll try it. I soap between 85-90 F which would just barely get it in that range. I remember you had posted the type of soy wax you use, but have forgotten. I’ll look it up in past threads. I doubt I’ll try until after Christmas since it’s hectic here, but I’ll let you know. Thanks Kiwi!

GW415. Good luck!

 

[Basil]

Oh thanks!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

GW415. Good luck!

Oh thanks!

@Basil The problem with buying soywax to use in soap making is that it's hard to find a supplier that sells less than a 10 pound bag. Read specs and reviews on GW415 here:
https://www.candlescience.com/wax/golden-brands-415-soy-wax

I buy my soywax here. They used to be American Organic Soywax but were recently unable to get "organic" certification due to their fields being in close proximity to other non-organic fields in the midwest.
http://store.americansoywax.com/

Originally, they offered a sample size for the cost of shipping but that's no longer available. The smallest amount is now sold in a 5-pound bag.
http://store.americansoywax.com/SoyMAX-M124B-Premium-Soy-Candle-Wax-199-per-pound-in-a-5-pound-bag_p_682.html

I have plenty to share. PM me if interested.