"Oil & Vinegar" sodium acetate in soap experiment

[CaraBou]

Thanks for the explanations. Clearly it was an oversight not to recognize your chemistry skills in addition to those related to math and overall documentation. I did okay (Bs) in college chem but it took a lot of work and didn't come very naturally. Glad there are people like you on the forum to make it a little easier for soaping!

I have heard a lot of people here talk about wanting to harden their soaps, but I am on the fence. Maybe if I sold or was opposed to animal fats, I would be more concerned. Could you provide insight to the benefits as you see them? Sorry for such a basic question; it seems so silly.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I have heard a lot of people here talk about wanting to harden their soaps, but I am on the fence. Maybe if I sold or was opposed to animal fats, I would be more concerned. Could you provide insight to the benefits as you see them? Sorry for such a basic question; it seems so silly.

It's not silly. Like you, I never took much of an interest in adding a hardener. To me, the recipes in the crafting community are biased too far towards the soft side on the average. I blame Soapcalc and its BS about "conditioning oils." My soaps are hard and have the qualities I want, so my experimental bottle of sodium lactate was tried and then stashed away because I didn't feel I had a use for it.

Old soapmaking sources suggest that sodium lactate and sodium acetate are useful hardeners when soap needs to be made from soft oils. If you look up the SL demo in the Soaping 101 YouTube channel, you'll see an especially dramatic example: she makes soybean oil soap with and without SL. Like any self-respecting linoleic oil, soybean wants to turn into soft, translucent sticky gunk instead of soap, and that's what had to be pried out of the mold for the plain version. The SL version popped out of the mold looking clean, opaque and hard like a normal soap.

When I heard that sodium acetate worked like SL and realized I could make it from vinegar, I had to try it. That's just me. I'm experimenting with this rather than recommending it.

People might have uses for it though, especially if they have trouble getting SL. I might have uses for it too. My soaps get a lot of hand work, and I was impressed with how my tools never got gummed up when I used them with the sodium acetate test soap. Check out the pictures of the planer above. That soap looked good too. Yesterday I made some 100% coconut oil laundry soap. I included sodium acetate to make the soap behave better in the food processor and to make the shreds more brittle and crumbly for pulverizing.

Anyway, you can try for yourself and see what it does for you. Also read old threads on sodium lactate.

 

[CaraBou]

Perfect, thanks. I always wonder if I'm missing something when I don't add this and don't add that, but my desire to make a relatively simple soap usually prevails. I do add sodium citrate to reduce scum. Up until now I've done that by adding citric acid and extra lye, but my CA supply finally dwindled so I just ordered sodium citrate to be more direct. It wasn't a lot of extra math but I am looking forward to the simplification none-the-less. I have enough to worry about with all of the other variables.

Your trim job is impeccable! I can totally see why you'd prefer the sodium lactate to get that result. And I get what you're saying about the gunk when planing. I usually just try to wait longer, but I certainly have my own patience demons so that doesn't always work. Plus, when I saw the shavings, my first thought was how well the sodium lactate would make curls for decorations. I have not yet incorporated curls, but my whole "simple soap" attraction sometimes goes out the window when it comes to design. It is nice to see ways to be more successful when you start messing with the basic properties of soap :mrgreen:

 

[Saponomancer]

Out of curiosity do you remember the sources for where you read about sodium acetate acting like sodium lactate?

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Out of curiosity do you remember the sources for where you read about sodium acetate acting like sodium lactate?

Yes there's a link to the main source in the first post of the new thread.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=59148

 

[biarine]

Interesting experiment I will try them