Nobody wants to try shampoo bars unless they're free...

Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums

Help Support Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums:

DMack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
165
Location
Scotland
@DMack when you say "shampoo bar," (the one you used after the Lush bar), was it actually a bar of soap? Many people do experience serious hair damage from using soap on their hair. I don't consider those "shampoo bars" for that reason. The shampoo bars we are talking about in this thread are made with syndets and do not contain soap.

Have you tried any of real syndet shampoo bars, other than the Lush bars? Lush bars are made with sulfates, which are way too stripping for my hair and irritating for my scalp. Most of us here use recipes that contain no sulfates, only the same ingredients used in non-sulfate liquid shampoos (but minus the liquid). If you haven't tried one of those, maybe @KiwiMoose will send you one of hers. :)
I tried two from Lush as they were a gift before I realised that the company were not as ’fresh’ as I had been led to believe. The other two I tried were soap shampoo bars but not marketed as soap. non sulphate cleansers weren’t readily available here and these companies sold their products as shampoo and even had solid conditioners for sale. I never tried those but I did try vinegar rinses. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors tbh and I read plenty of reviews along similar experi to mine with both
 

Zany_in_CO

Saponifier
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
7,810
Reaction score
8,721
Location
SE Denver CO
I always thought that soap wasn’t soap without sodium hydroxide.
:thumbs: That's true. You can't make "soap" without lye. However, on SMF there are two camps...
Lye-based soap and liquid soap.
Syndet (synthetic/detergent, i.e., NOT soap) bars for hair and body.

If lye-based soap doesn't work for you, you may want to try syndets.

MAKE YOUR OWN SHAMPOO BARS
 
Last edited:

DMack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
165
Location
Scotland
Can you get hold of the ingredient list for the one that broke your hair?
This was one of them
IngredientsSodium cocoate, Sodium olivate, Aqua, Sodium castorate, Lavandula angustifolia (lavender) oil contains linalool, Pelargonium graveolens (rose geranium) leaf oil contains citronellol, geraniol, linalool

this was the blurb

This nourishing shampoo bar is compact, long-lasting, and uses castor oil for a creamy and deeply conditioning lather that cleans and cares for your locks and scalp. Relaxing lavender and rose geranium essential oils add to the pleasure.

Can you get hold of the ingredient list for the one that broke your hair?
This is the other. I notice they have changed their adverts to include the words ‘cold processed soap’
  • EUCALYPTUS MINT & LEMON ESSENTIAL OIL SHAMPOO SOAP - Contains a blend of complimentary essential oils to open your airways and leave your hair smelling fresh. INGREDIENTS: Saponified Olive Oil, Coconut Oil and Sustainably sourced Palm Oil, Castor Oil, Eucalyptus, Mint & Lemon Essential Oils
  • SUITABLE FOR NORMAL-DRY HAIR AND SCALP - This shampoo soap includes additional castor oil making it more suitable for those with normal-dry hair and scalp.
 

Zany_in_CO

Saponifier
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
7,810
Reaction score
8,721
Location
SE Denver CO
@DMack Those are both lye-based shampoo bars. It's incredibly important to rinse with cool water until it gets as cold as you can stand it to get ALL the soap residue out to avoid what you experienced. There is also a period of adjustment when you first start using lye-based shampoo. There's good info on this site:

EVERYTHING ABOUT SHAMPOO BARS
 

DMack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
165
Location
Scotland
@DMack Those are both lye-based shampoo bars. It's incredibly important to rinse with cool water until it gets as cold as you can stand it to get ALL the soap residue out to avoid what you experienced. There is also a period of adjustment when you first start using lye-based shampoo. There's good info on this site:

EVERYTHING ABOUT SHAMPOO BARS
I tried. i rinsed and rinsed and then used vinegar rinse. We used them for nearly 2yrs and tbh I adjusted very quickly. The issues started very late into usage. On purchasing I did’t know they were soap not shampoo because of the cryptic (frankly outright lies) on the packaging. both billed as super kind to hair and scalp. I wasn’t a member of this forum then and was new to my reading as well. I’ve learned a lot more since, mainly thanks to you guys ☺️
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
7,265
Reaction score
13,208
Location
US
@DMack I'm one of the small minority, along with Zany, who can successfully use soap as shampoo on my hair. I never did a cold water rinse as Zany described, but did use vinegar rinses. Really, I believe the issue has more to do with hair type, frequency of washing, perhaps climate and diet, etc. FWIW, my husband was able to use soap on his hair for a few years before he experienced super dry and flaky scalp, and some hair fall - and his hair was already quite short, too.

Given all the issues others had, I decided it wasn't worth risking eventual problems, so I switched back to liquid shampoo for a bit, and then on to true shampoo bars. They truly are the same ingredients as what you will find in most liquid shampoos, just without the water. If you can't get the ingredients there, that is a bummer.
 

DMack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
165
Location
Scotland
@DMack I'm one of the small minority, along with Zany, who can successfully use soap as shampoo on my hair. I never did a cold water rinse as Zany described, but did use vinegar rinses. Really, I believe the issue has more to do with hair type, frequency of washing, perhaps climate and diet, etc. FWIW, my husband was able to use soap on his hair for a few years before he experienced super dry and flaky scalp, and some hair fall - and his hair was already quite short, too.

Given all the issues others had, I decided it wasn't worth risking eventual problems, so I switched back to liquid shampoo for a bit, and then on to true shampoo bars. They truly are the same ingredients as what you will find in most liquid shampoos, just without the water. If you can't get the ingredients there, that is a bummer.
More companies are cottoning on and some big brands are appearing in the supermarkets at reasonable prices as well. One is selling for £8. The market is changing. I’ve just checked 4 ranging from £4-£12 and all are syndets albeit milder sulphates. What ingredients would you use in a sulphate free bar out of interest?
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
7,265
Reaction score
13,208
Location
US
More companies are cottoning on and some big brands are appearing in the supermarkets at reasonable prices as well. One is selling for £8. The market is changing. I’ve just checked 4 ranging from £4-£12 and all are syndets albeit milder sulphates. What ingredients would you use in a sulphate free bar out of interest?
I use several of the sulfate-free recipes from DIY Bath & Body (she lists all her ingredients in each Etsy listing) and HumbleBeeandMe.com. The primary surfactants are SCI, Cocoamidopropyl Betaine, and Decyl Glucoside. I'd like to try some of the foaming apple that @KiwiMoose loves in her bars. Just need to wait for my supply order to reach critical mass for optimum shipping rates!
 

DMack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
128
Reaction score
165
Location
Scotland
I use several of the sulfate-free recipes from DIY Bath & Body (she lists all her ingredients in each Etsy listing) and HumbleBeeandMe.com. The primary surfactants are SCI, Cocoamidopropyl Betaine, and Decyl Glucoside. I'd like to try some of the foaming apple that @KiwiMoose loves in her bars. Just need to wait for my supply order to reach critical mass for optimum shipping rates!
Three have sodium coco sulphate, one has Sodium cocoyl isethionate* Disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate

@AliOop i just opened up the site you mentioned to read later. Thank you
@KiwiMoose what ingredients do you use if you don’t mind me asking?
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
4,489
Reaction score
7,735
Location
Kelowna, BC, Canada
I was just thinking about shampoo bars when this discussion popped up. I saw an ad for Nope shampoo and conditioning bars and, from idle curiosity, I looked at the ingredients and noticed that they do not contain lye but does have sodium coco-sulphate, which is a new one on me. Does anyone know about this; does it replace the lye? I always thought that soap wasn’t soap without sodium hydroxide.

I make all our soaps and also a liquid shampoo for my husband from the Failor book, which my husband uses and loves (he does a vinegar rinse but no conditioner). I don’t get on with it as I find that my, uncoloured, hair gets thick-feeling and slightly greasy even with a vinegar rinse and conditioner. I would like to use a ‘no poo’ shampoo but have yet to find something I can make which works for me. My basic understanding is that one cannot make conditioners without surfactants; is this true?

I only make soap for us and as gifts for friends. I do keep a record of every soap I make and its outcome but am purely hobbyist. Comments appreciated. Thank you.
What you were looking at is a "syndet" shampoo (synthetic detergent). It is not a true soap recipe. A lot of people find lye based shampoos very hard on their hair, especially those with longer hair. There are members here on SMF who have had to cut their long locks because of damage, even with acidic rinses and copious water rinsing.

Conditioner bars needn't use surfactants. Surfactants are foaming agents; they're used in the shampoo bars.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
7,265
Reaction score
13,208
Location
US
Three have sodium coco sulphate, one has Sodium cocoyl isethionate* Disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate
Similar to Sodium Lauryl Sulphate/sulfate, sodium coco sulphate/sulfate is a sulfate surfactant. It will strip hair color and can be harsh on the scalp and hair. I personally wouldn't use it, but those with uncolored, healthy hair may find it acceptable.

Sodium cocoyl isethionate is the same ingredient I referred to as "SCI." This is a milder, non-sulfate surfactant. I don't find it irritating at all, but some folks do if the total percentage used is too high.

Disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate is an ingredient with which I have no experience. I am pretty sure is a non-sulfate surfactant, but if avoiding sulfates matters to you, you'd want to double-check. HumbleBeeandMe.com has a wonderful encyclopedia of ingredients that can be very helpful. A $1/mo subscription to the Swifty Crafty Monkey blog can also be handy. The blog is not well organized, but there is more information there than one can imagine, including explanations of almost every ingredient under the sun.
 

Kiti Williams

Crazy Crafter and Neighborhood Nut!
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
1,096
Reaction score
798
Location
Reading, PA
@DMack I'm one of the small minority, along with Zany, who can successfully use soap as shampoo on my hair. I never did a cold water rinse as Zany described, but did use vinegar rinses. Really, I believe the issue has more to do with hair type, frequency of washing, perhaps climate and diet, etc. FWIW, my husband was able to use soap on his hair for a few years before he experienced super dry and flaky scalp, and some hair fall - and his hair was already quite short, too.

Given all the issues others had, I decided it wasn't worth risking eventual problems, so I switched back to liquid shampoo for a bit, and then on to true shampoo bars. They truly are the same ingredients as what you will find in most liquid shampoos, just without the water. If you can't get the ingredients there, that is a bummer.

As an aside, I use homemade shampoo that is made with lye. My whole family uses it, no problems with hair damage.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
7,265
Reaction score
13,208
Location
US
As an aside, I use homemade shampoo that is made with lye. My whole family uses it, no problems with hair damage.
That's awesome, but you, your family, Zany and I are definitely in the minority, sadly. I know a lot more people who have suffered greatly from using soap to wash their hair. I wish it were not so, but on this forum alone, a plethora of folks have shared their horrific stories of hair damage.

FWIW, I avoid using the term "shampoo" or "shampoo bars" to refer to any form of lye soap, bar or liquid. The original definition of shampoo was a detergent product created to replace soap for cleaning hair. Most people - including DMack - don't think they are buying lye soap if something is marketed as "shampoo" instead of "hair soap."

It's no different than hand-crafted soapmakers trying to educate the public that Dove isn't actually soap, but rather, a syndet. I'm all for having a variety of products and letting people choose what's best for them -- as long as the seller is clear about the product being sold, including whether it contains true soap, syndets, or whatever.
 

Dawni

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Messages
3,545
Reaction score
5,928
Location
Philippines
Been using shampoo bars for almost 5yrs now. Vain is me, so here's me n my hair lol. It's even longer now. I never brush. My comb is my fingers. I don't use a hair dryer, don't rub with a towel either. Absolutely nothing else touches my hair other than a solid conditioner that I use from maybe halfway down. But then, my hair is one of those types that can handle almost anything lol

Shampoo bars are trial n error, if you're really willing to not use liquid. If someone doesn't have the patience to go n try several of em to see how it suits themselves they might never be convinced to not go back to liquid - for many other reasons too, cost and ease of usage being top ones.

It's been difficult here to convince people to use free ones too LOL. People are very particular about their hair and once they have a shampoo that works they're not willing to try anything else.

Also, for some reason, none of the bars with scents (and I've tried many over the years) I've tried stuck to my hair compared to liquid shampoos. Now myself, am not a fan of my hair smelling like someone else's air freshener or something lol but I do have several testers who complain that once their hair is dry their hair doesn't smell shampooed.

It's been easier to "force" my male cousins to test my shampoo bars than the females. Go figure.

That being said. Shampoo bars is a big market here so either we collectively have indestructible hair or we're a bunch of eco loving people haha. I've been meaning to get in but I'm still testing.
 

lucycat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
283
Reaction score
385
I'm a little late in response but I used to order shampoo bars from get lathered. I love her products. When I started I used both shampoo and conditioning bars. I purchased the first time to see if I wanted to make them. I quickly decided hers were great and they lasted so long I would just buy. I even gave them for gifts. I was probably 60 and was coloring my hair. After a few years I was not liking the feel after using the shampoo bar with my coarser hair but still loved the conditioner bar; Now, fully grey, thinner hair and no coloring I find the conditioner bar tends to add too much weight to my hair and styling is harder. I just need a different formulated shampoo bar and conditioning bar today than I needed 12 years ago.

I think that is why commercial products always have so many versions and that is a problem if you are making. How many versions for what can of hair can you make? We use ourselves as our primary testers so your product is probably going to work best for people with similar age and hair to you. I love the minimal packaging and how long they last but I need a shampoo and conditioning bar that is formulated for grey hair today. Just like others would like for long hair, oily, dry, colored, etc. One product really does not fit all.
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
167
Reaction score
282
Location
southwest OH
For some reason I can't quote you.

I tried a shampoo bar in the past. It was a pain to rub into my hair (at that point it was super thick, down to bra strap). It also left my hair feeling clumpy and icky. Doing an ACV wash was a PITA and way more work than this 5-min shower wash-n-go gal wanted. I'm loath to repeat the experience.

I personally don't care about my gray hair coming in, but at some point might want it to look more silvery than gray. I do know that since I started getting gray hair it's far more particular about what product I'm using.

If I was willing to try it, I'd want to purchase a small sample size at a low dollar commitment. I've wasted way too much money in the past on products that didn't work. I won't do it any more.

My biggest objection to trying a shampoo bar is I got a chemical burn from a Trader Joes shampoo a few years back, and since then I've had to be extremely careful what I use. I learned to read labels so I could purchase responsibly. It took a lot of trial and error but I finally found a clean shampoo that works for my hair type AND skin. I'm not willing to upset the apple cart.

Could I be honest here? It troubled me that you called these "excuses". They're valid concerns, all of them, not excuses. I hope the many responses you've received will show you that. It was probably poor phrasing on your part, but if that is truly how you see it, that attitude will carry forward to your prospective customers and may alienate them. It came across to me as judgmental and talking down and put my back up (I don't need to justify my choices to you). I'm sure that's not how you intended it and that you're just frustrated by the situation (you have a product you love; why doesn't everyone else?!!). I just wanted to bring this to your attention as I wouldn't want anything to interfere with your project.

Hope
 

Kiti Williams

Crazy Crafter and Neighborhood Nut!
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
1,096
Reaction score
798
Location
Reading, PA
That's awesome, but you, your family, Zany and I are definitely in the minority, sadly. I know a lot more people who have suffered greatly from using soap to wash their hair. I wish it were not so, but on this forum alone, a plethora of folks have shared their horrific stories of hair damage.

FWIW, I avoid using the term "shampoo" or "shampoo bars" to refer to any form of lye soap, bar or liquid. The original definition of shampoo was a detergent product created to replace soap for cleaning hair. Most people - including DMack - don't think they are buying lye soap if something is marketed as "shampoo" instead of "hair soap."

It's no different than hand-crafted soapmakers trying to educate the public that Dove isn't actually soap, but rather, a syndet. I'm all for having a variety of products and letting people choose what's best for them -- as long as the seller is clear about the product being sold, including whether it contains true soap, syndets, or whatever.

I the flyer that goes with my shampoo soap, I have listed that it IS a Lye based soap, and how to transition to a bar from commercial shampoos. I sell "Tastes" for a dollar each. I usually have batter left over, so I have a candy mold to make these up. One lady didn't believe that ZNSC was as good as I said, she bought a "taste" and went off the the ladies room to see for herself. She came back and bought 5 bars for her and her family!
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
4,634
Reaction score
11,481
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
OMYGOSH @KiwiMoose! I have been looking for square molds as i like them better than round. May i ask what you use for the square?
It's a 'giant ice cube' silicone mold from K mart. I just half filled them ( still bit too big for as maples but that's what you get when you eyeball stuff instead of measuring. ;)
They look like this and should only cost about $US2 each if you shop around: Tovolo King/Jumbo Ice Cube Silicone Tray BPA Free/Dishwasher Safe Candy Apple - Onceit
 
Top