No sugar no coconut ?

[CecileBC]

Hi all,

I was wondering: for great lather / bubbles in soap, if I use max 20% coconut oil and I do not want to use sugar, what would you advise ?
Babassu oil?
Some other oil or additive ?

Thank you

I just saw a similar post, sorry...
You mentionned:
- add 5% castor oil
- lower superfat to 2-3%
- maybe add some sunflower oil

 

[KiwiMoose]

I'm not sure about the sunflower oil - but the previous two look good. Change your water to aloe juice - it's great for bubbles.

 

[CecileBC]

Thanks KiwiMoose
Our aloe juice is expensive though here...

 

[KiwiMoose]

Thanks KiwiMoose
Our aloe juice is expensive though here...

I just cut and peel my own from the garden, then puree it.

 

[CecileBC]

I just cut and peel my own from the garden, then puree it.

The beauty of living in NZ: great garden I bet ! I could do it here too, I guess...but in a while as mine are only very small.

 

[AliOop]

I’m curious. Why not add sugar? I prefer sorbitol myself, but plain sugar is fine. You don’t need much of either; even 1% of oils can make a nice difference. Each works as a solvent to make the soap lather more easily.

Another way to accomplish that is by using 1-2% KOH. That requires more math, and KOH is more expensive than sugar, but it works pretty well.

@Dawni’s rice soap also bubbles wonderfully. I believe it is the starch from the rice.

 

[CecileBC]

Thanks AliOop !

The idea of "no sugar" comes from my wish to do a soap with ingredients as natural as possible. In that case, I would have to use unrefined brown sugar - like a rapadura or so - and it has biggish clumps in it, so I have no idea how it would behave in a batter. I could just try though... But I thought I would ask for alternatives.

I'll look into the rice soap, it sounds great ! thanks
Also willing to try the 1-2%KOH: the more knowledge, the better ! And it's fun !

 

[AliOop]

Thanks AliOop !

The idea of "no sugar" comes from my wish to do a soap with ingredients as natural as possible. In that case, I would have to use unrefined brown sugar - like a rapadura or so - and it has biggish clumps in it, so I have no idea how it would behave in a batter. I could just try though... But I thought I would ask for alternatives.

I'll look into the rice soap, it sounds great ! thanks
Also willing to try the 1-2%KOH: the more knowledge, the better ! And it's fun !

You are welcome! If you use sugar, it should be completely dissolved in some batch water before adding lye. That means any lumps in the dry sugar become irrelevant, because it is completely dissolved. But the color of the brown sugar water will darken your batter a bit.

 

[CecileBC]

You are welcome! If you use sugar, it should be completely dissolved in some batch water before adding lye. That means any lumps in the dry sugar become irrelevant, because it is completely dissolved. But the color of the brown sugar water will darken your batter a bit.

Ok !
Now that we're on sugar, I saw that Elly's Everyday makes a sugar syrup (1 part water/2 parts sugar) @ 1 to 2% of total weigth of oils, that she adds it "at any stage". Would that be an option to put it in the batter after trace ? I read that most people put the sugar in the lye water...
Thanks !

 

[AliOop]

Ok !
Now that we're on sugar, I saw that Elly's Everyday makes a sugar syrup (1 part water/2 parts sugar) @ 1 to 2% of total weigth of oils, that she adds it "at any stage". Would that be an option to put it in the batter after trace ? I read that most people put the sugar in the lye water...
Thanks !

Sure, making a sugar syrup is fine, too. It's accomplishing the same thing (dissolving the sugar completely) just in a different way.
Personally I'm not up for the hassle of making a separate syrup, storing it somewhere, etc., since it saves me no time over dissolving the amount I need, right when I need it.

But there is no rule about making it ahead, nor any rule about whether to combine with the lye solution or the oils, or to add before trace, or add after trace. Everyone is free to do what works best for their soaping style. That being said, generally, the fewer things you must remember to add after trace, the better. Plus, once your CP soap reaches trace, if you are hoping to make designs, you are now working against the clock and against chemistry when you start stirring in more stuff. Now, if you are making HP and not CP, then adding hot sugar water at trace is wonderful for making the batter more fluid. Thus, it's important to know the context of the recommendation because what helps in one situation can hurt in another.

For all of the above reasons, it's best for me to make my dissolved sugar (sorbitol) solution when I'm making my soap, and to combine it with my lye solution, or with my oils, before making the batter. That way, I don't forget it, and I don't affect my level of trace by adding something in later. But you can and absolutely should do it differently if that works better for what you are making, for how your brain thinks, etc.

 

[KiwiMoose]

How about honey?

 

[janesathome]

I just cut and peel my own from the garden, then puree it.

@KiwiMoose - I’ve been cutting aloe from some of my houseplants (can’t grow it in the garden in my climate, alas ) - and stick blending it to get a gloopy gel. Can I substitute this gel for aloe juice (which I assume is a lot runnier) as a water substitution? TIA!

 

[KiwiMoose]

@KiwiMoose - I’ve been cutting aloe from some of my houseplants (can’t grow it in the garden in my climate, alas ) - and stick blending it to get a gloopy gel. Can I substitute this gel for aloe juice (which I assume is a lot runnier) as a water substitution? TIA!

That sounds a bit weird - mine goes super thin like water in the blender. Are you sure it's aloe?

 

[AliOop]

That sounds a bit weird - mine goes super thin like water in the blender. Are you sure it's aloe?

My homemade stuff is thick and gloopy, too. Could it be different varieties, or perhaps different growing environments?

 

[KiwiMoose]

My homemade stuff is thick and gloopy, too. Could it be different varieties, or perhaps different growing environments?

This is mine…

 

[CecileBC]

Sure, making a sugar syrup is fine, too. It's accomplishing the same thing (dissolving the sugar completely) just in a different way.
Personally I'm not up for the hassle of making a separate syrup, storing it somewhere, etc., since it saves me no time over dissolving the amount I need, right when I need it.

But there is no rule about making it ahead, nor any rule about whether to combine with the lye solution or the oils, or to add before trace, or add after trace. Everyone is free to do what works best for their soaping style. That being said, generally, the fewer things you must remember to add after trace, the better. Plus, once your CP soap reaches trace, if you are hoping to make designs, you are now working against the clock and against chemistry when you start stirring in more stuff. Now, if you are making HP and not CP, then adding hot sugar water at trace is wonderful for making the batter more fluid. Thus, it's important to know the context of the recommendation because what helps in one situation can hurt in another.

For all of the above reasons, it's best for me to make my dissolved sugar (sorbitol) solution when I'm making my soap, and to combine it with my lye solution, or with my oils, before making the batter. That way, I don't forget it, and I don't affect my level of trace by adding something in later. But you can and absolutely should do it differently if that works better for what you are making, for how your brain thinks, etc.

I understand, and will probably use the same method as yours, as I know my brain would tend to forget things on the run...
Thanks a million for this precise info. Learning curve on the rise

 

[CecileBC]

How about honey?

Yes, honey: good idea!

 

[Blufuz]

You could also try with fruit juice instead of water, but be careful to freeze it before adding the lye. I made a soap with fresh-pressed apple cider and was quite happy with the bubbles.

 

[CecileBC]

You could also try with fruit juice instead of water, but be careful to freeze it before adding the lye. I made a soap with fresh-pressed apple cider and was quite happy with the bubbles.

Thanks Blufuz, the apple cider soap is tempting
I like your profile photo: cats have a way to sit right in the centre of the action

 

[AliOop]

This is mine…View attachment 71879

That looks just like the ones grown in pots in my climate - but I don't have one of those. I normally buy a big, cut aloe branch (leaf?) from the grocery store, typically 2-3 ft long and probably 4-6 inches wide at the. base. The stuff that I scrape out is very gloppy and thick when blended, so I usually thin it out with distilled water.

PS - they are usually labeled as coming from Mexico.