"newbie" trying to figure out recipes

[Nite Hawk]

Howdy!
Am new in the "soap circles" and wanting to find /make a soap recipe that fits our needs.
Have not been happy for years with the store soap, and how it simply does NOT get your face clean anymore even though you wash several times, and scrub the daylights out of it. :cry:
After trying some homemade soap that was given to me, and actually getting a clean face without ripping the hide off, or may face feeling like sandpaper,I am "hooked" on homemade soap.
I have looked at a number of soap recipes online, but don't feel they fit what i am looking for. This household gets dirty with grease and grime on a very frequent basis.
I was tinkering with a soap calculator, and it seems that when I get the hardness of the bar up a bit, it appears to be on the harsh cleansing side of things,and when I tinker with the ingredients a bit more and get the cleansing down a bit, the bar appears to be on the soft side.
I am not familiar enough with the numbers to know if they are in the acceptible side of things or not, sol was hoping someone out there might be able to give me some pointers if the numbers are too high or too low. Advice would be appreciated..

olive oil--47 oz
palm kernel 19 oz
coco oil--15 oz
castor oil 15-oz
neem oil 3 oz
bees wax 2 oz

the calculator read ---
Hardness- 38
cleansing--22
conditioning -57
bubbly -36
creamy--29
iodine-60
INS- 149

Since I have never made soap before I was wondering what people thought about the recipe, if it was too soft, or too conditioning, or what, as I don't have previous experiance to fall back on if this is in the range of normal, and if not what can be done to change things..
thanks...
Have a great day!!

 

[Kay]

I'll let other, more knowledgeable people comment on your recipe ingredients. My first thought was, that's a lot of soap for something you don't know whether you'll like or not! I would suggest starting out with smaller batches until you find something you KNOW you're going to like, and then make bigger batches. I'm still playing with 2 lb batches myself.

 

[pamielynn]

"hardness" refers generally to how fast the bar will melt. Not whether you can pound nails with it or not. Personally, I would find that recipe too harsh, with a cleansing value of 22 - but it depends what you're looking for.
If you like the handmade soap you got, why not become a good customer of whoever made it?

 

[Nite Hawk]

I figured for simplicity sake to use the number 100 0z final weight, and them possibly when actually making it to cut it in half or 1/4 to see if the recipe works first or not. We have a large household that is often in the grease and dirt, and soap doesn't last long around here if it has a tendency towards softness.
Also, because we have a large household I tend to do things on a large scale out of habit.When making bread you aim for at least 11 or 12 loaves of bread, instead of where most people would only do a couple loaves.
As for buying soap from the source that gave me some earlier,
they live in anouther country, and the duties at the border, shipping and taxes would be absolutely prohibitive.
I am not familiar with the soap numbers and is 22 too harsh? And is 38 too hard or too soft?. If so is there a way to jiggle the oils numbers to correct things?
Maybe I am dreaming, but I would love to get good enough at basic soap making to try making soap from our jersy cow after she freshens, but I realize milk soap can be tricky...
thanks...

 

[Kay]

Since no one else has responded, I'll do my best to help you out some. Mine you I'm no expert. Your cleanings number is in the upper realm. The normal cleansing range is 12-22. This will be fine, but while it will be very cleansing, it will also make it more drying to the skin. A way to work around that is by superfatting. What are you superfatting this recipe at? What percent? Increasing superfat % will leave more oils free after reacting with lye, to help moisturize your skin. I hear you on the grease and dirt factor, as I too live on a farm.
The hardness range is normally 29-54, so you're right in there on that IMHO. Hardness deals with how hard your bar of soap will be. I like hardness myself. Actually, if you want it harder, you could add a little bit of table salt to the batch. Just a little bit does a lot. I've been talking to someone else here, and she suggests using 1/2 tsp per lb to increase hardness.

 

[kharmon320]

I wouldn't worry too much about that cleansing number. My normal recipe is a cleansing of 20, but I superfat at 7% and it doesn't strip my skin. Personally, I would reduce the castor oil, it can make the soap softer and I didn't find it really helped my lather all that much. I ended up cutting it out of my go-to recipe altogether. Also, I'm not sure what you are hoping the beeswax will add to the recipe. If you add it in soapcalc, it actually decreases the hardness. However, soapcalc also states higher olive oil percentages will be soft, but experience shows that a well-cured bar of olive oil soap is very hard.

If you're not averse to animal products try adding some lard or tallow. They make really nice soap. I like a mix of lard, olive oil, coconut oil, and a bit of soybean (but not more than 10%). I like the silky feel and lather that soybean brings to the party. I originally added shea butter, castor oil, etc., but dumped them after I tested out my recipe with soybean. Many don't like soybean in soap, but it works for me.

I do agree that a smaller batch would be better to start with. Trust me... you won't be able to make just one batch. So, once the addiction sets in, you can adjust your recipe and see which one you like best.

 

[pamielynn]

Yes to kharmon's post. You can have a higher cleansing number, if you can work up the "conditioning" number and add a higher superfat (or lye discount -same thing) than five. Wouldn't advise going over 10 at the max.

I would also suggest that you run the smaller batches through a lye calculator - just cutting the recipe in half may result in inaccurate numbers.

The best thing to do is to pick your recipe and try it out. That is the only true test. You can formulate all day long and not like the final result. I will say that your castor is way high and will result in a soft soap. Max that out at 10 - too much castor can also reverse the amount of bubblage. It's one of those "you CAN have too much of a good thing".

 

[DeeAnna]

And if you do not have any idea whether you really like the scent of neem oil, smell it first and decide if you really want to use it. Neem is one of those love-hate kind of ingredients.

Edit: And if this is your very first recipe, I really, really would leave the beeswax out. It melts at a much higher temperature than the other solid fats. You will get into the problem of trying to keep the beeswax fully melted while not wanting the batter to trace too fast from the warmer-than-usual conditions.

That is not the kind of situation I would want to put myself in for my first recipe -- it's like putting a 5 year old on a bicycle without training wheels and pushing her down a hill for a first ride.

 

[Nite Hawk]

Like I said, I am completely new to soap making, so am definately looking for feedback. What would you replace the extra castor oil with? The idea of the beeswax is that I have heard that it reduces "ash" build up on your soap, and the neem has antibacterial properties, and believe me this "crew" gets dirty, not just a little sweat either so a bit of antibacterial action doesn't hurt.
So if I keep the cleansing somewhat high say 22 ---23 or there abouts, I can counter act the strength
with conditioning?..The conditioning number is 57 is that too low for a stronger cleansing number?
My understanding of supperfatting is to add a bit extra- higher / heavier fat oil than the recipe normally call for that the lye won't pick up, so it is left for conditioning, --is this correct? How far can you go with superfatting before you get left with a greasy feeling on your skin?? What is a good superfatting oil that won't reduce the soap hardness / cleansing effect too ,much? Is superfatting calculated into the recipe on a lye calculator or added after?
If the cow was fresh would a bit of butterfat / cream work,? and if so would it have to be pasterized?
Also different cows have a different butterfat content, can that throw things out of whack when trying to calculate how much to use??
Since we have been using some of the homemade soap that I was given, one member of the household's eczema has improved, so I definately want to try staying away from commercial soap and see if it continues to improve.
Thanks for the replies so far.. Have lots to learn..
Nite Hawk

 

[Clemmey]

Like I said, I am completely new to soap making, so am definately looking for feedback. What would you replace the extra castor oil with? The idea of the beeswax is that I have heard that it reduces "ash" build up on your soap,

My understanding is that ash is purely aesthitic and won't impair your bar of soap, but spritz of rubbing alcohol on the top of your bars will keep ash at bay.

So if I keep the cleansing somewhat high say 22 ---23 or there abouts, I can counter act the strength
with conditioning?..The conditioning number is 57 is that too low for a stronger cleansing number?
My understanding of supperfatting is to add a bit extra- higher / heavier fat oil than the recipe normally call for that the lye won't pick up, so it is left for conditioning, --is this correct? How far can you go with superfatting before you get left with a greasy feeling on your skin?? What is a good superfatting oil that won't reduce the soap hardness / cleansing effect too ,much? Is superfatting calculated into the recipe on a lye calculator or added after?

I don't know much about the numbers as I use brambleberry's lye calc and recently started using SoapCalc. What I have found is that I prefer a bar with at least 7-8% superfatting, anything less tends to be a bit harsh.

If the cow was fresh would a bit of butterfat / cream work,? and if so would it have to be pasterized?
Also different cows have a different butterfat content, can that throw things out of whack when trying to calculate how much to use??
Since we have been using some of the homemade soap that I was given, one member of the household's eczema has improved, so I definately want to try staying away from commercial soap and see if it continues to improve.

If you decide to use milk, freeze it so that it won't burn in the lye. I would also search eczema and see what recipes pop up that are on this forum, there are LOTS of recipes.

From your recipe I see LOTS of oils which = $$, especially if you are just starting. I would research on here, but try to keep it simple for the 1st time. I would also research the different benefits of the different types of oil, palm and CO make a harder bar. Lard and tallow will too, but different types of tallow offer different degrees of hardness.

The other thing you could do is buy some different bars online (etsy) and see what you think, especially if they have the types of oils that you are interested in using.

good luck and have fun... it's addicting!

 

[Birdie Wife]

olive oil--47 oz
palm kernel 19 oz
coco oil--15 oz
castor oil 15-oz
neem oil 3 oz
bees wax 2 oz

Since I have never made soap before I was wondering what people thought about the recipe, if it was too soft, or too conditioning, or what, as I don't have previous experiance to fall back on if this is in the range of normal, and if not what can be done to change things..
thanks...
Have a great day!!

Okay, just my tupp'orth, but I would drop the neem and beeswax, increase the coconut to about 25 as you said your household has grime and grease issues (i hear you, so does mine) and drop the castor down to about 5. That might help the hardness of the bar too, as coconut is your only ingredient that is solid at room temp.

 

[DeeAnna]

palm kernel is solid at room temp too.

 

[Kay]

Ok, here goes Night Hawk.... My first batch of soap that I ever made was 100% Coconut Oil Superfatted at 18%. My husband and I are still using and LOVING it! It has TONS of suds, it's hard, and it CLEANS! With it being 18% superfatted, it's not too drying to your skin. (Yes, we shower with it) I'll be honest with you; I scrapped my crock pot after making this first batch and had the scrapings sitting next to the kitchen sink (waste not want not) and we started using it to wash our hands when we came in. It doesn't take very much, like crumb size, to wash your hands. Once my hubby came in with greasy hands and used it and it worked GREAT! Once I had some greasy hands from making lotion and used it and it worked great again. I mean this stuff rivals Dawn in my book! I'm going to make some more, only don't superfat it at all, to use as dish washing soap! And no, even at 18% superfatting with coconut oil, you don't feel greasy when you get out of the shower.
Now, if you can't handle the condition number that comes up on soapcal with 100% coconut oil, I would suggest you play with sweet almond oil. It's the most conditioning oil I've seen while playing with soapcal. I'm sure there are others, that's just one I've noticed as having a high conditioning factor.
Hope this helps you some.

P.S. If you go to http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp and put in 18 where it says Super Fat %, it will calculate how much oil you need to superfat. You add all your oil in from the start.

 

[Nite Hawk]

I have some "ancient" lard, that has been frozen "forever" in the freezer, and was thinking about possibly using some of that, if it wouldn't go rancid on me, in place of some of the other oils..
Wondered if dropping some of the castor oil and using some of the lard would work, or maybe dropping some of the other oils slightly and adding a bit of lard what kind of soap it would make....
Any thoughts?

 

[cmzaha]

And if you do not have any idea whether you really like the scent of neem oil, smell it first and decide if you really want to use it. Neem is one of those love-hate kind of ingredients.

Edit: And if this is your very first recipe, I really, really would leave the beeswax out. It melts at a much higher temperature than the other solid fats. You will get into the problem of trying to keep the beeswax fully melted while not wanting the batter to trace too fast from the warmer-than-usual conditions.

That is not the kind of situation I would want to put myself in for my first recipe -- it's like putting a 5 year old on a bicycle without training wheels and pushing her down a hill for a first ride.

I would greatly recommend you leave out the neem and beeswax. Both will heat up and are troublemakers. Also many do not like neem and neem is a bit drying. BTW I soap with 27% neem but it has taken me a long time to get it down so it works well. A cleansing soap I make is lard 30%, Palm 25%, coconut 22%, sunflower 18%, castor 5%. Superfat of 5 or 6 because of the sunflower. cleansing 15, condition 51 hardness 151. I use this for many of my men's soaps

 

[Nite Hawk]

Anybody have any problems with lard going rancid in soaps. The stuff I have have has been in the freezer for quite a while, would think it would still be okay but don't know how lard reacts in soap..
thanks for the advice

 

[pamielynn]

People soap with lard all the time. Commercial "soap" bars are usually lard or tallow based. Works like any other fat.

 

[Nite Hawk]

concerning spritzing with alcohol to prevent ash build up, do you use 70% or 99% ??
When do you spritz with alcohol? same day as you mold or when and how often?

 

[mel z]

concerning spritzing with alcohol to prevent ash build up, do you use 70% or 99% ??
When do you spritz with alcohol? same day as you mold or when and how often?

91% alcohol sprayed after you get it into the mold.

Lard is great in soap, and your forever frozen will work just fine.

Trust that neem stinks, lol. Heat it up if you have it and smell it. You may leave the room. :shock: Or, you may like it. :-o

I'd suggest leaving out the beeswax for now too. In fact, you don't need it in there at all. But, whatever you try, do keep us updated! I have to say, I just jumped in and started doing all kinds of things, some worked, some went into the garbage.

 

[Birdie Wife]

palm kernel is solid at room temp too.

Oh ta, haven't used it myself and forgot