NewB and Lotion temps

[BMWRTMike]

I have a few lotions under my belt and have a question.
I have been using a hot water bath to hold at 60c for the 20 min. I have noticed, and it sounds logical that in the same water bath, the oil phase is always quite a bit hotter than the water phase. Is this a problem? Or am I reading too much into it? Should I use two separate baths to keep them at 60c ?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[seven]

i don't think it's a problem. to be honest, i rarely keep an exact temp when i make my lotions. i just checked the temp once, leave it for 20 mins or more and do the rest. what matters to me more is hygiene. i make sure the tools i'm using are clean clean clean and sanitized with alcohol.

 

[elmtree]

i don't think it's a problem. to be honest, i rarely keep an exact temp when i make my lotions. i just checked the temp once, leave it for 20 mins or more and do the rest. what matters to me more is hygiene. i make sure the tools i'm using are clean clean clean and sanitized with alcohol.

Yup what seven said. I rarely even check the temps anymore after the initial check of 170 (that's my heat and hold number) and then hold. The oils will stay hotter longer. I find that they do get hotter than the water but that's never affected my lotion.

 

[BMWRTMike]

Thanks. The other thing that I have noticed is that the water phase always is quite a bit lighter after the 20 minutes. I made a recipe for 400g. All measurements were made properly. Scale is accurate. By the time that I got the water phase and the oil phase mixed, I had just over 300g of product. Do you try to account for the evaporation? Or do you adjust the weight of the cool down phase ingredients to the proper percentage? Or stay with the original weights?

 

[elmtree]

Thanks. The other thing that I have noticed is that the water phase always is quite a bit lighter after the 20 minutes. I made a recipe for 400g. All measurements were made properly. Scale is accurate. By the time that I got the water phase and the oil phase mixed, I had just over 300g of product. Do you try to account for the evaporation? Or do you adjust the weight of the cool down phase ingredients to the proper percentage? Or stay with the original weights?

So for this problem I use press n seal over every container. I also have an ounce or two of water on standby that I've sterilized. So after you've added your water phase to the container weigh the whole thing, pot and all and make a notation of that weight. Then, when you're done heating and holding weigh the whole thing again. You can now add from your water you've set aside for this, whatever the amount is.

 

[shunt2011]

I always add extra water to account for the evaporation during the heat and hold and then just remeasure before combining.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...Do you try to account for the evaporation?..."

Yes, I do. That's the only way to get consistent, repeatable results with my recipes. I also cover my containers to reduce evaporation of the water phase and to keep my ingredients as clean as possible. I'd say a loss of about 25% due to evaporation alone is unusually high, so you might want to look into what's going on with your process to reduce that. My evaporation loss is maybe 1% or so, to give you some perspective.

I have compensated for evaporation in two ways -- first like Elmtree does (just adding a separate amount of water after heat-n-hold). The second way is by measuring out a slight bit more water than the recipe calls for to account for most of the evaporation, doing my heat-n-hold, and then adding a gram or three more water at the end if the water phase is light. I've gotten enough experience that this second method works pretty well for me now.

I am one of those who prefers that my water phase should reach my target heat-n-hold temp. First to keep things as sanitary as possible. And second I want my lotion to not cool down too fast when I initially mix it together. To solve this problem, I use the microwave to quickly bring the water phase up to the heat-n-hold temp, then put that container in my water bath for the heat-n-hold time.

"...the oil phase is always quite a bit hotter than the water phase..."

What you're seeing is the difference between the "heat capacity" of water versus oil. Water simply needs more energy to warm up to a particular temperature than oil/emulsifier. Unless you heat-n-hold for a long enough time ... or add a little extra energy into your water phase up front ... the water phase ingredients might not ever get hot enough by the time you want to make the lotion.

Digression: That's one of the amazing reasons why our planet functions as well as it does -- the incredible ability of water to even out temperature fluctuations in our climate due to its high heat capacity.

 

[elmtree]

"...Do you try to account for the evaporation?..."

Yes, I do. That's the only way to get consistent, repeatable results with my recipes. I also cover my containers to reduce evaporation of the water phase and to keep my ingredients as clean as possible. I'd say a loss of about 25% due to evaporation alone is unusually high, so you might want to look into what's going on with your process to reduce that. My evaporation loss is maybe 1% or so, to give you some perspective.

I have compensated for evaporation in two ways -- first like Elmtree does (just adding a separate amount of water after heat-n-hold). The second way is by measuring out a slight bit more water than the recipe calls for to account for most of the evaporation, doing my heat-n-hold, and then adding a gram or three more water at the end if the water phase is light. I've gotten enough experience that this second method works pretty well for me now.

I am one of those who prefers that my water phase should reach my target heat-n-hold temp. First to keep things as sanitary as possible. And second I want my lotion to not cool down too fast when I initially mix it together. To solve this problem, I use the microwave to quickly bring the water phase up to the heat-n-hold temp, then put that container in my water bath for the heat-n-hold time.

"...the oil phase is always quite a bit hotter than the water phase..."

What you're seeing is the difference between the "heat capacity" of water versus oil. Water simply needs more energy to warm up to a particular temperature than oil/emulsifier. Unless you heat-n-hold for a long enough time ... or add a little extra energy into your water phase up front ... the water phase ingredients might not ever get hot enough by the time you want to make the lotion.

Digression: That's one of the amazing reasons why our planet functions as well as it does -- the incredible ability of water to even out temperature fluctuations in our climate due to its high heat capacity.

Perfectly said DeeAnna. I too have started adding a bit more water to my water phase. Maybe half an ounce. That's usually all I need. I too use the micro to get my water up to temp then hold. I tried doing both using a Bain Marie and the oils were always ready long before the water.

 

[Aline]

I have a few lotions under my belt and have a question.
I have been using a hot water bath to hold at 60c for the 20 min. I have noticed, and it sounds logical that in the same water bath, the oil phase is always quite a bit hotter than the water phase. Is this a problem? Or am I reading too much into it? Should I use two separate baths to keep them at 60c ?

Thanks,
Mike

I use a glass 'saucepan' with a lid to heat my water and then use a lower heat level so they reach temp at the same time. I'm aware of evaporation but my numbers work anyway.