New Soaper - First Batch of Lard Soap, Recipe/Formula Help Needed

[theginkgohouse]

Hi All -

I would love a second set of eyes on this formulation before I go ahead with it. I have never made cold process soap before, and I am very pasture raised pork lard from a local farmer. He actually wants me to wholesale him soap from his own animals. I figured I should learn how to make soap first
I do feel very well prepared to make my first batch. I've watched a **** ton of videos, know all the terms, have ready roughly 1.2 trillion articles and recipes, etc.

I am very experienced with lotion batch calculators and other calculators like that. I've been making balms, chapsticks, etc. for years so I just wanted to give you that background to prove that I know math. However... why don't any of the lye calculators START with the finished batch size based on a general guideline of water to oil ratio? I feel that I must be missing something. This confuses me beyond.

1) I am using the brambleberry 5lb wooden mold with the silicone liner. I called brambleberry and they said that the silicone liner results in 76oz of soap. I was surprised that it only takes 4oz away from the 5lb mold, but they must be right, right? Does anyone have experience with this specific product and can confirm 76oz?

2) I read in another post here that water weight is roughly 1/3rd of the formula. So 76oz x 2/3 = about 51oz of oils and therefore 25oz of water. Can anyone confirm that this is reasonable? This is where I get confused or expect this soap calculator to do more. If it knows water is roughly 1/3rd, why doesn't the calculator do this?

3) Soap Calc asks for % of water, so what would that be? I will just use 33% because I think I read that somewhere as being "medium" firmness. I was actually hoping to water discount for a harder bar, what is the water % for a harder bar?

4) I read that when using a silicone mold, it is recommended to use sodium lactate at 3%. Can anyone confirm that this is reasonable for easy release?

5) Where do I add that in Soap Calc? Or do I just do 3% of the water ... so after "View/print" my recipe, water is
16.83% so I would do 3% of that?

6) I want to superfat at 8% because I hear that makes a really luxurious bar that is nourishing. This is obviously not a bar of cleaning dishes or doing laundry. Many experienced soapers on this forum say they never superfat below 8%. Is there any way you could just confirm that its not an idiotic thing to do?

7) No fragrances here to worry about, I'm an au naturale kinda girl

8) See my attached formula. I was surprised to see that on the scales of the different characteristics, soap calc says its a 1 for cleansing and a 1 for bubbly. I thought lard and castor oil and sodium lactate all have bubbly properties? Am I making a huge mistake here?

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR ANY ASSISTANCE HERE. I am basically using all my beautiful rendered lard to make this 5lb batch, so I want to make sure I am at least starting off with a good formula.

 

[Kcryss]

I'm a new soaper as well, but I think it looks great. Wish I had access to lard or tallow for soaping. Some might say your cleansing is on the low side, but I honestly think it will clean just fine. But I'm a newbie and don't know much so best to wait for one of the more experienced soapers to weigh in.

 

[Dawni]

Look at your creaminess - it's almost at the top. That's from the lard. Your lather will be creamy and lotion like if you will, instead of having the big bubbles, which only coconut will give you.

That's also the only oil that ups the cleansing factor, which to most means the "stripping" factor. Personally, I use very little coconut myself (12 and below cleansing usually) and a couple of recipes without it. Hence, my superfat is also very low, like 2-4. In fact, if you do read a bit, several here DO superfat much below 8.

All soap will clean even at 1 cleansing. It's just a question of how cleansing - just right or strip away everything clean lol - you want your soap to be. I haven't made a 93% lard soap so I don't think I should suggest a superfat. Personally I base my SF on how much coconut I use but others might have better suggestions.

Castor oil on the other hand, does not make bubbles. It just sustains it. I have several recipes without it and they lather fine but it's nice to have if, in my case for example, I'm using a lot of stuff that might cut lather.

I hope that helps. I'll leave those more experienced in CP to answer the other questions. I will suggest a much user friendly calculator though - https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/soap-making-recipe-builder-lye-calculator/# - and if you wanna read even more, this site by an SMF member has tons of great info on soapy stuff - https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.asp.

 

[Zing]

Castor oil is a 'booster' of bubbles and is a 'must have' in all my recipes. Have fun soaping and welcome!

 

[nebetmiw]

I only make Lard based soaps. You will need sweet almond oil in there to bring up bubble lather. My best 3 base was lard, coconut and sweet almond oil. But I have over active oil glands so my skin can handle it.

If I was you try adding the sweet almond to your recipe and some coconut. Castor alone with lard would not be very nice. More slime feeling. Coconut will up your cleansing don't go over 30% with it. I wouldn't reduce water to 33 but keep it at 38. You will be lye heavy if you keep it at 33. First rule in soap making is KISS keep it simpley stupid. Since you haven't made soap you need to see how thing work before switching to water reduction. Your superfast is fine.

 

[cmzaha]

Welcome to the Forum Theginkohouse.

I only make Lard based soaps. You will need sweet almond oil in there to bring up bubble lather. My best 3 base was lard, coconut and sweet almond oil. But I have over active oil glands so my skin can handle it.

If I was you try adding the sweet almond to your recipe and some coconut. Castor alone with lard would not be very nice. More slime feeling. Coconut will up your cleansing don't go over 30% with it. I wouldn't reduce water to 33 but keep it at 38. You will be lye heavy if you keep it at 33. First rule in soap making is KISS keep it simpley stupid. Since you haven't made soap you need to see how thing work before switching to water reduction. Your superfast is fine.

First off please dis-regard what you are reading here. The amount of water does Not make lye or non-lye heavy soap. It is the Amount of Lye. Most of us long-time soapers will soap with a 33% Lye Concentration which is the third tick box in the soap calculator. You have a 33% water as percent of oil weight resulting in a 28% lye concentration. Lye can only be dissolved at an average ratio of 50/50.

If you are going to be selling your soap you need to take the time to learn how to make a very nice bar of soap. In my opinion, a high lard soap with high superfat is Not a nice soap but a soap that will leave a lot of scum, especially in a harder water area. Lard is nice in soap but it really nice in a well-balanced bar. It does not make a slimy bar of soap like a high oleic Olive Oil bar of soap but it does make a slippery bar of soap. I am one that also has DOS problems, but that is my problem, with high lard soaps so you also want to know what is going to happen to your soap a year down the road. It just takes time. You do not need to pay the price of Sweet Almond Oil to make a nice bar of soap. High free oils such as high superfat can be hard on old plumbing. Additives such as chelators, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Gluconate and Citric Acid can cut scum and which also help cut scum collection in drains. In other words, there is a lot to learn other than just making soap. You also need to know enough to sort out good from bad info. I personally superfat at 1-2% these days, my average was 2-3% for years but lowered it again. So please take your time and learn.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with cmzaha. 33% is perfectly fine. More or less water has nothing to do with the final bar of soap after cure. I personally would at the very least add some coconut oil for lather. You don’t have to use castor but can add 1 tsp per pound of oil to your water and dissolve it before adding your lye. I use 33% fro my high lard soaps. You don’t need sweet almond oil, you can add olive ,rice bran or ho sunflower or safflower. Though again it’s not needed. I wouldn’t superfat it at 8% either. I would do 5%. Also, I recommend you make smaller batches until you get the hang of it and you won’t be wasting materials if you don’t like it or something goes wrong.

Finally, put even considering to sell on the back burner. You’re putting the cart before the horse. It take many batches and time to see how your soaps are after cure and long term.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

The forum is a treasure trove of information and collective learning. I find it helpful to look at recent posts on topics and then work backwards to see how and why the thinking has changed on a topic. Superfatting is a great example. High superfat sounds like a great idea, but it may cut down on lather as mentioned above. Also, the lye you buy may not be pure, which results in a bit more superfat than calculated. You can use the advanced search to find recent posts. Or just look at the dates of the threads. Anything from the last few years will usually reflect recent thinking on a topic.

 

[TheGecko]

Hi All -

I would love a second set of eyes on this formulation before I go ahead with it. I have never made cold process soap before, and I am very pasture raised pork lard from a local farmer. He actually wants me to wholesale him soap from his own animals. I figured I should learn how to make soap first
I do feel very well prepared to make my first batch. I've watched a **** ton of videos, know all the terms, have ready roughly 1.2 trillion articles and recipes, etc.

Hello and welcome to the madness.

1) I am using the brambleberry 5lb wooden mold with the silicone liner. I called brambleberry and they said that the silicone liner results in 76oz of soap. I was surprised that it only takes 4oz away from the 5lb mold, but they must be right, right? Does anyone have experience with this specific product and can confirm 76oz?

It's their mold so they would know. I have one of their 2lb wooden molds w/liner and it holds just slightly less than 32 ozs of soap batter.

2) I read in another post here that water weight is roughly 1/3rd of the formula. So 76oz x 2/3 = about 51oz of oils and therefore 25oz of water. Can anyone confirm that this is reasonable? This is where I get confused or expect this soap calculator to do more. If it knows water is roughly 1/3rd, why doesn't the calculator do this?

It's not unreasonable, but the more water, the longer it will take for your soap to cure. I soap, depending on the time of year, with a 30% to 35% Lye Concentration which translates into 32% to 25% water.

And it can...at least SoapCal.net can. It starts with a default of 1 lb and 38% Water as a % of Oils, but you can change it to 33% if you want. You just don't want to go below 15% or your Sodium Hydroxide (lye) won't dissolve.

3) Soap Calc asks for % of water, so what would that be? I will just use 33% because I think I read that somewhere as being "medium" firmness. I was actually hoping to water discount for a harder bar, what is the water % for a harder bar?

The default is 38%, but you can change it...just don't go below 15%.

4) I read that when using a silicone mold, it is recommended to use sodium lactate at 3%. Can anyone confirm that this is reasonable for easy release?

I use 1 tea Sodium Lactate PPO (per pound of oils) for ALL my molds.

5) Where do I add that in Soap Calc? Or do I just do 3% of the water ... so after "View/print" my recipe, water is 16.83% so I would do 3% of that?

The measurement for Sodium Lactate is based on the weight of your oils, not your water (you add it to your Lye Solution, not your oils) . It is considered an Additive, so you can type or write it in.

6) I want to superfat at 8% because I hear that makes a really luxurious bar that is nourishing. This is obviously not a bar of cleaning dishes or doing laundry. Many experienced soapers on this forum say they never superfat below 8%. Is there any way you could just confirm that its not an idiotic thing to do?

I SuperFat at 5% for my Regular Soap, 3% for my Goat Milk Soap and 20% for my Salt Soap. The reason for the difference is that milks contain natural fats so it is already adding more fat. And my Salt Soap contains a LOT of Coconut Oil which is very dry so I need more 'fat' to combat that.

8) See my attached formula. I was surprised to see that on the scales of the different characteristics, soap calc says its a 1 for cleansing and a 1 for bubbly. I thought lard and castor oil and sodium lactate all have bubbly properties? Am I making a huge mistake here?

Sodium Lactate does nothing more than to help harden the bar to make it easier to unmold. Castor Oil draws moisture to the skin and creates lather. Lard will make a moisturizing, creamy, and hard bar of soap, but it's not bubbly or cleansing.

My recommendation is to drop your Castor Oil to 5%, Lard to 75% and add Coconut Oil at 20%. That will give you a nice well-rounded bar of soap.

He actually wants me to wholesale him soap from his own animals. I figured I should learn how to make soap first

Which is a fantastic idea, except I hope he's not planning on having soap before Spring. It's one thing to make soap for personal use, it's another thing to sell soap. If you make a bad soap for yourself, lesson learned...if you sell a bad soap, you can get sued. When I first started, I tried several different recipes. I then cured for 6 weeks and then sent my bars out to testers (friends and family) with no other information than it was soap. With the feedback, I made some more soap...more curing, more testing. It was almost 6 months before I sold my first bar of soap.

If you're only planning on making one basic kind of soap, you could get away with less testing. You could make a half dozen different soaps based on your recipe and feedback from here, cure, test and then pick one recipe.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

^^ what Gecko said. Nine+ months into soap making I have about two dozen testers telling me that they like all of the soaps (with widely varying preferences on favorites), one telling me that all but one of the five soaps I gave him seem drying (including a well aged 60% lard soap), and two said they got a rash (same household, different soaps). My son’s fiancé had a reaction (headache and sneezing) when he brought home a suitcase full of soaps. We think it was fragrance overload. When/if I decide to sell, I will want to know that a recipe has been shelf stable for a year. I will also be super cautious about what I add / how I market. I want to do the best I can to inform a customer’s decision making on additives.

 

[DeeAnna]

1) I am using the brambleberry 5lb wooden mold with the silicone liner. I called brambleberry and they said that the silicone liner results in 76oz of soap. I was surprised that it only takes 4oz away from the 5lb mold, but they must be right, right? Does anyone have experience with this specific product and can confirm 76oz?...

I don't use BB molds so I can't confirm the numbers. But what I can tell you is that it looks like BB is defining the size of their molds by the weight of water the mold will contain. This isn't the same thing as the volume of soap batter.

Soap batter is not as dense as water -- you get more volume of soap batter for the same weight, as compared to water. Or stated the other way, you need less weight of soap batter to get the same volume, in comparison to water. That's most likely why their 5 lb (80 oz) mold holds only 76 oz of soap.

2) I read in another post here that water weight is roughly 1/3rd of the formula. So 76oz x 2/3 = about 51oz of oils and therefore 25oz of water. Can anyone confirm that this is reasonable?...

You are kind of reinventing the wheel here in a way that I'm not sure will be productive. There's a simple estimator that you can use to estimate the total fat weight -- the 0.4 Rule for inches and ounces. It's described here: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-to-figure-how-much-oil-for-mold.2909/ and here: https://classicbells.com/soap/moldBatchSize.asp

"...This is where I get confused or expect this soap calculator to do more. If it knows water is roughly 1/3rd, why doesn't the calculator do this?

Because it's not accurate to assume water is 1/3 of the soap batter, despite what you've read. While this proportion might be valid for one person's recipe, it's certainly not valid for everyone's. So a calc that made this assumption would be worse than useless for many people.

For example, the water content in my recipes is about 21% of the total water+oil+NaOH weight.

3) Soap Calc asks for % of water, so what would that be? I will just use 33% because I think I read that somewhere as being "medium" firmness. I was actually hoping to water discount for a harder bar, what is the water % for a harder bar?

Start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio and forget about "water as % of oils". A good starting point is to use 33% lye concentration (2.0 water:lye ratio). See also https://classicbells.com/soap/waterRatioConc.asp and https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.asp

4) I read that when using a silicone mold, it is recommended to use sodium lactate at 3%. Can anyone confirm that this is reasonable for easy release?

It's an optional additive. Some people use it, some don't. You can start without it and see what you think. Or you can use it ... but use the right dosage (see below).

5) Where do I add that in Soap Calc? Or do I just do 3% of the water ... so after "View/print" my recipe, water is 16.83% so I would do 3% of that?

The 3% dosage for sodium lactate (SL) is not 3% of the water. It's 3% of the fat weight. For every 100 grams of fat, you'd add 3 grams of SL. If you use ounces, substitute "ounces" for "grams."

Sodium lactate solution is 60% sodium lactate and 40% water, so you can't treat it as if it's all 100% water. Every 10 grams of sodium lactate solution contains 6 grams of SL and 4 grams of water. You can either ignore the added water or subtract it from the total water weight, whichever you think is best for you.

6) I want to superfat at 8% because I hear that makes a really luxurious bar that is nourishing. This is obviously not a bar of cleaning dishes or doing laundry. Many experienced soapers on this forum say they never superfat below 8%. Is there any way you could just confirm that its not an idiotic thing to do?

And many other experienced soapers use 2% superfat and get soap that is just as luxurious. Neither extreme is idiotic -- they're just choices. As you gain experience, you may eventually learn you can choose the superfat to suit the type of soap you're making.

Lard has very low amounts of lauric and myristic acids. High lard soaps do not lather a lot even with a low superfat, and a high superfat will cut the lather even further. A high lard soap will be very mild without a high superfat, so I don't see that it will benefit from a high superfat.

If I made a very high- or all-lard soap, I personally would superfat it at 2%. If you're uncomfortable with a superfat that low, then try 5%.

"...soap calc says its a 1 for cleansing and a 1 for bubbly. I thought lard and castor oil and sodium lactate all have bubbly properties? Am I making a huge mistake here?

As I pointed out, a very high- or all-lard soap won't lather abundantly and it will be very mild even with a low superfat. The fatty acids that make large bubbles are lauric and myristic acids. These are the fatty acids you find in coconut oil.

Castor oil doesn't add bubbles on it's own -- it strength is in enhancing the lather created by the other fatty acids.

If you want more lather in total and more bubbly lather, then you'd be better off to use 7% coconut oil not castor. And be prepared to let the soap age for months. I've made an 80% lard, 20% coconut bar and it was not especially lathery for the first 2-3 months. It was very nice at about 1 year old.

 

[paragon]

Isn't the fatty acid profile of canola oil almost exactly the same as sweet almond oil? A little different balance of palmitic and stearic, but that's not a big deal. I see the major difference is that canola oil has 9% linolenic acid. Is that a big deal? If not, shouldn't every non-professional be using canola instead of almond? (Are there other disadvantages that don't show up in the FA analysis?)