Neem Oil
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They are really pretty!
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
Yes, they are very pretty. The orange is a odd thing. The bars I gelled didn't have any orange besides a tiny bit around the top edges but the samples that didn't gel had a thick bright layer on the tops.
I popped them in the oven after 24 hours and that removed the orange.
When I made this soap, the batter had an odd grainy texture, like mild ricing. I thought originally that the orange bits were an artifact of the ricing. But if that was the case, I would expect to see the mottling throughout the bar, not just on the surface. So I dunno what it is. I'm glad it planed off -- the soap looks nicer without that.
The neem smell is still distinct. Not as much of the lime as I was hoping there would be. To be honest, the smell is not nasty as people's descriptions would have you think. Just odd -- a warm, woody, medicinal herb odor (what I mean are herbs more like mugwort, yarrow, or chamomile) with a pinch of garlic. I think it will mellow into that "black tea" scent eventually -- was that you, Obsidian, who said that? Good explanation!
The neem smell is still distinct. Not as much of the lime as I was hoping there would be. To be honest, the smell is not nasty as people's descriptions would have you think. Just odd -- a warm, woody, medicinal herb odor (what I mean are herbs more like mugwort, yarrow, or chamomile) with a pinch of garlic. I think it will mellow into that "black tea" scent eventually -- was that you, Obsidian, who said that? Good explanation!
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Obsidian
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the black tea comment was me. I really hope it happens again as it smelled really nice, no hint of garlic.
Different sources of neem has different levels of nasty. The first bottle I had was really, really stinky but the bottle I have now isn't near as bad. Since I have skin issues, I apply it straight to my skin and the smell doesn't bother me too much.
Different sources of neem has different levels of nasty. The first bottle I had was really, really stinky but the bottle I have now isn't near as bad. Since I have skin issues, I apply it straight to my skin and the smell doesn't bother me too much.
"...I apply it straight to my skin..."
Oh, that reminds me of something I wanted to share --
I was looking into the safety of neem oil after I made my soap. I thought maybe an 80% to 100% neem oil soap might not be such a good idea from a safety point of view. (edit: I got caught up in the technical challenge of making a soap high in neem, and then my training in safety finally caught up with my science-y enthusiasm.)
From what I can tell, neem oil seems to be reasonably safe for use on the skin -- although neem oil is often used in lower concentrations, it appears that full strength neem oil can be safely used on the skin.
Neem seed oil is toxic if ingested, however, so a person would want to wash hands carefully after applying neem and before eating. I also know little kids will put all sorts of stuff in their mouths. I'd err on the side of using less neem seed oil in soap if little kids have access to the soap. Maybe that's why (in addition to the expense) that most neem soaps contain neem oil at 20% or less.
Oh, that reminds me of something I wanted to share --
I was looking into the safety of neem oil after I made my soap. I thought maybe an 80% to 100% neem oil soap might not be such a good idea from a safety point of view. (edit: I got caught up in the technical challenge of making a soap high in neem, and then my training in safety finally caught up with my science-y enthusiasm.)
From what I can tell, neem oil seems to be reasonably safe for use on the skin -- although neem oil is often used in lower concentrations, it appears that full strength neem oil can be safely used on the skin.
Neem seed oil is toxic if ingested, however, so a person would want to wash hands carefully after applying neem and before eating. I also know little kids will put all sorts of stuff in their mouths. I'd err on the side of using less neem seed oil in soap if little kids have access to the soap. Maybe that's why (in addition to the expense) that most neem soaps contain neem oil at 20% or less.
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Your neem soap turned out just like mine do. Not sure why your neem did not accelerate trace, mine always does, but I am not home to check my recipe, since I have not made neem soap in a couple of years not sure of my full recipe. I no longer do the market where it sold well so have not made any lately
Kprime
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I have no idea why the neem didn't accelerate in my batch either. I didn't do anything to avoid it except to hand stir rather than stick blend right away.
The batter did show some mild ricing, but the it stayed at a stirrable "curdled egg custard" texture that wasn't showing any visible trace. I was expecting it to rush full tilt into heavy trace or soap-on-a-stick, so imagine my surprise that it didn't, even after I finally buzzed it with the SB'er.
The batter did show some mild ricing, but the it stayed at a stirrable "curdled egg custard" texture that wasn't showing any visible trace. I was expecting it to rush full tilt into heavy trace or soap-on-a-stick, so imagine my surprise that it didn't, even after I finally buzzed it with the SB'er.
I finally got around to making the neem soap last night. I used it at 20% and I did scent it with a bit of lavender EO.
I can't really smell the lavender but the neem is much less offensive, tolerable I think. The neem accelerated trace but remained at a kind of gel / vasaline consistency. (very similar to the sous vide soap) The soap was colored with some turmeric and lemon powder that was swallowed up by the oil. It gelled completely and I unmolded and cut it after 12 hours, it made some drag marks but the soap is really very firm.
I realize you don't get much benefit from a rinse off product (and I may be a little weird
) but I leave the lather on my
face for a bit in the morning and my skin feels very soft, not greasy at all. The lather was amazing, as close to shaving foam as I have gotten from a bar of my soap. So it seems the results are pretty similar with lower amounts of neem oil.
I'm looking forward to seeing and smelling it in 6 weeks. Thank you all for the valuable input!
I can't really smell the lavender but the neem is much less offensive, tolerable I think. The neem accelerated trace but remained at a kind of gel / vasaline consistency. (very similar to the sous vide soap) The soap was colored with some turmeric and lemon powder that was swallowed up by the oil. It gelled completely and I unmolded and cut it after 12 hours, it made some drag marks but the soap is really very firm.
I realize you don't get much benefit from a rinse off product (and I may be a little weird
) but I leave the lather on myface for a bit in the morning and my skin feels very soft, not greasy at all. The lather was amazing, as close to shaving foam as I have gotten from a bar of my soap. So it seems the results are pretty similar with lower amounts of neem oil.
I'm looking forward to seeing and smelling it in 6 weeks. Thank you all for the valuable input!
My batch of 85% neem soap (see Posts 35-36) is just shy of 4 months old now. The neem scent has mellowed a lot during this time. Neem not one of those addictive scents that lure me to sniff it over and over again, but the cured soap smells decently tolerable. Obsidian's description of black tea is pretty accurate -- a kind of warm, woody, slightly medicinal, tannic smell. The garlic/onion aroma that was so distinct in the young soap is now gone. I added Nature's Garden lime-cilantro FO to the soap, but I have to say the scent from the FO never did appear, so adding this scent was pretty much a wasted effort.
I still think I'd drop the % of neem down to the 20% range. Not because 85% doesn't work to make soap, but more because of the safety concerns I mentioned in Post 46.
Another thing I learned the hard way is the lather is Very. Very. Bitter. Bitter enough that I don't want to use this soap on my face for fear of getting any suds on the lips that might end up not getting fully rinsed off. The soap works fine everywhere else ... but absolutely no, zero, nada soap suds in the mouth, please! This is one soap I never want to zap test.
I still think I'd drop the % of neem down to the 20% range. Not because 85% doesn't work to make soap, but more because of the safety concerns I mentioned in Post 46.
Another thing I learned the hard way is the lather is Very. Very. Bitter. Bitter enough that I don't want to use this soap on my face for fear of getting any suds on the lips that might end up not getting fully rinsed off. The soap works fine everywhere else ... but absolutely no, zero, nada soap suds in the mouth, please! This is one soap I never want to zap test.
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
I was wanting to try my neem soap a couple days ago but I can't find it! I looked in all the places I normally store my soap and just can't locate it.
I did find a 4 yr old bar of castile, too bad I don't have anyone who will use the stuff lol.
The neem will show up sooner or later. I have a bad habit of putting things in a "safe" spot then forgetting it.
I did find a 4 yr old bar of castile, too bad I don't have anyone who will use the stuff lol.
The neem will show up sooner or later. I have a bad habit of putting things in a "safe" spot then forgetting it.
Good to know, DeeAnna. I would never have even thought of that (bitter-tasting soap.)
I didn't think about the taste either ... until it was too late. I've (carefully and cautiously) zap tested and tasted many batches of soap with all kinds of FOs, EOs, and other ingredients; a few soaps that were lye heavy and many that are not. I've been reasonably okay with all of them ... until I met my 85% neem batch.
I've (carefully and cautiously) zap tested and tasted many batches of soap with all kinds of FOs, EOs, and other ingredients; a few soaps that were lye heavy and many that are not. I've been reasonably okay with all of them ... until I met my 85% neem batch.
Moose Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I just recently made a neem bar with 20% neem. Like most I also had the recipe accelerate on me, 10 seconds of stick blending and it traced. What really caught me by surprise was that this batch was also my first volcano. It wasn't explosive per se but the surface started to crack and I was on standby. I added sugar to my recipe, apparently it may have been a bit too much.
DeeAnna your bars look awesome!
DeeAnna your bars look awesome!
Joy Wolff
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I use Neem leaves in my soap recipes occasionally. Take the amount of Neem leaves you want, put into a blender. I add cinnamon ground in equal amounts to the blender. Blend together, until they are fine. Use it as an additive in your soap. Add it into your lye calc as to "additions", the calculator I use, tells me to use more or less, depending on the batch I am making. It smells nutty, and "food like". The cinnamon also is good for skin and exfoliation. I like both!
I know this is an old conversation, but I've been wanting to make a neem soap for my sister who has psoriasis, and I have been looking for information on a safety concern she brought up. She says that neem is not safe for use in pregnancy because it can cause miscarriage. Has anyone else heard of that? I'd still like to make a batch of neem soap for a friend, but having recently had a miscarriage myself, I'm not willing to handle anything that could potentially cause another one, or have my neem soap cause problems for someone else. Also, where does one source neem oil? I only want a little. Can I pick it up at a garden center, or does it have to be specifically for soapmaking?
My neem is from Soaper's Choice, but they only sell it (last time I looked) in 7 pound amounts.
Not sure if garden neem is 100% plain neem or if there are other things like emulsifiers in the preparation. If the product you're looking at is 100% neem, I'd be okay with that. But if there's anything else ... nope.
As far as toxicity, what research have you or your sister found that says neem applied to the skin is hazardous? I think you need to know that information before you can make an educated decision. I know neem if ingested can be toxic, but that's not the same as neem put on the skin.
Not sure if garden neem is 100% plain neem or if there are other things like emulsifiers in the preparation. If the product you're looking at is 100% neem, I'd be okay with that. But if there's anything else ... nope.
As far as toxicity, what research have you or your sister found that says neem applied to the skin is hazardous? I think you need to know that information before you can make an educated decision. I know neem if ingested can be toxic, but that's not the same as neem put on the skin.
This is the beginning of my research. If neem is toxic when
taken internally, it wouldn't matter if a person is pregnant or not to be harmed by it. My sister can have - interesting opinions, shall we say - about some things, but the last thing I want is to injure someone. I wonder if whatever makes it "bad" is even left after soponification. I guess in that case, the SF would have to be 0% though. From the sounds of it, neem makes a beautiful soap!
Here is a link from WebMD on neem oil. https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-577/neem. I will let you make your own conclusions.
I have used neem at 1.5% in my deodorant for the past 5 years. It makes a huge difference in the effectiveness.
